Equations of the harmonic oscillator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equations of motion for a harmonic oscillator, specifically the formulas for position, velocity, and acceleration. Participants explore the derivation and understanding of these equations, with a focus on their geometric interpretations and the application of calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant shares the formulas for position, velocity, and acceleration of a harmonic oscillator, referencing figures from a textbook.
  • Another participant suggests that the formulas for velocity and acceleration can be derived using calculus, indicating that velocity is the derivative of position and acceleration is the derivative of velocity.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the geometric interpretation of the figures related to the formulas, particularly in understanding the components of the vectors involved.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the relationship between the components of the velocity vector and trigonometric functions, prompting a focus on the right triangle in one of the figures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the formulas presented, but there is uncertainty regarding the geometric interpretations and the application of calculus in deriving the equations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the participant's understanding of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the participant's understanding of calculus, which may affect their ability to fully grasp the derivations of the formulas. Additionally, the reliance on geometric interpretations may lead to confusion without a solid foundation in trigonometry.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in the mathematical foundations of harmonic motion, particularly those seeking clarification on the relationships between position, velocity, and acceleration in a geometric context.

KodRoute
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Hello, my book explains detailed the proofs of these three formulas:

y = Asin(ωt + φo)
v = ωAcos(ωt + φo)
a = -ω²Asin(ωt + φo)

Where a is acceleration, v is velocity, ω is angular velocity, A is amplitude.

The book uses the following figures:
Figure a) --> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30m8f9j&s=8
Figure b) --> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2hrejde&s=8
Figure c) --> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=a0f9te&s=8

In the first case a) what I'm seeing is that the sine in the triangle whose hypotenuse is R and opposite side vector y is (vector y)/(vector R), in this case R is the amplitude.

The rest b) and c) are just complicated, I don't understand them. Anyone out there to help me here?
Thank you!

Edit: Sorry for posting this here, it's supposed to go to homework help, my fault.
 
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Conceptual questions that arise from not understanding your textbook or lecturer's notes, are fine here. The homework-help forums are for getting help with solving specific exercises.

The simplest way to derive the formulas for v and a is by using calculus. v is the derivative of y with respect to t, and a is the derivative of v with respect to t. I suppose you haven't had calculus yet?
 
Last edited:
jtbell said:
Conceptual questions that arise from not understanding your textbook or lecturer's notes, are fine here. The homework-help forums are for getting help with solving specific exercises.

The simplest way to derive the formulas for v and a is by using calculus. v is the derivative of y with respect to t, and a is the derivative of v with respect to t. I suppose you haven't had calculus yet?
Hi! Thank you for replying, no I haven't done calculus yet. I thought these formulas came from looking at the geometry of these vectors.
 
For figure (b), focus on the small right-triangle that has ##\vec v_t## as its hypotenuse. Which trig function (sin or cos) is associated with the y-component of ##\vec v_t##, and is that component + or -?

To get the amplitude (maximum value) of v, remember that the point moves around the circle at constant angular speed ω (radians/sec). What linear speed (m/sec) does that correspond to? (This is the magnitude of the vector ##\vec v_t##.)
 
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