Escape of Electrons from Nucleus: Frequency and Occurrence in Atoms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the frequency and occurrence of electrons escaping from atoms, particularly focusing on carbon and its behavior in various contexts such as organic molecules and plasmas. Participants explore the conditions under which electrons may leave atomic structures, including ionization processes and interactions with anti-electrons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how easily an electron can escape the nucleus of a carbon atom and how frequently this occurs.
  • Another participant clarifies that electrons do not escape from the nucleus but rather from atomic orbitals, noting that carbon is stable and does not shed electrons under normal conditions.
  • There is discussion about the behavior of valence electrons in organic molecules, with some participants suggesting that these electrons are not bound to specific atoms.
  • Concerns are raised about the likelihood of electrons being annihilated by anti-electrons, with one participant asserting that this is practically never the case due to the rarity of positrons.
  • Participants mention that in metals, outer electrons are not attached to specific atoms and move freely at high speeds.
  • There is a question regarding the nature of electrons as quasi-particles and their relation to creation-annihilation in field theory.
  • One participant explains that ionization requires collisions or absorption, and the rate of ionization in plasmas depends on particle density and energy distribution.
  • It is noted that ionization can also occur through exposure to UV or x-rays, and calculating ionization rates requires knowledge of cross sections, which may not be accurate for all elements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of electron escape and ionization, with no consensus reached on the frequency of these occurrences or the implications of anti-electrons. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of electron behavior in various contexts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific conditions such as temperature, density, and the type of radiation involved in ionization processes. The discussion also highlights the incomplete data available for calculating ionization rates, particularly for heavier elements.

I2004
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escaping electrons...

how easy is it for an electron to escape the nucleus of an atom and how often does it happen?

say we have an atom of carbon, how often will it shed/share or swap an electron, or how often will an electron escape in an average time frame?
 
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You mean the electrons in atomic orbitals? "Electron to escape nucleus," makes it sound like you want it to actually originate from nucleus, which will only happen in beta-minus decay. Carbon is stable, so no electrons leaving the nucleus. The shell is another matter, however.

In organic molecules, the valence electrons tend to shift around. They aren't really bound to a specific carbon.

If you are interested in a free carbon atom, then you need to look at first ionization energy. For Carbon, it's 11.26 eV. Thermal fluctuations at room temperatures are on the order of 0.025 eV. That results in probability of electron leaving a carbon atom being so low that it might as well be zero.
 


In organic molecules, the valence electrons tend to shift around. They aren't really bound to a specific carbon.

but you would say they don't leave the compound? how often/how likely would these electrons in the compound likely get annihilated by anti-electrons?
 


I2004 said:
but you would say they don't leave the compound? how often/how likely would these electrons in the compound likely get annihilated by anti-electrons?

Practically never. Positrons (Anti-electrons) aren't common. They are actually created all the time by cosmic rays colliding with matter here on Earth, but in such low amounts compared to the amount of normal matter than any individual electron would effectively never meet one in any realistic time frame.
 


In metals, the outer electrons are completely unattached to particular atoms but constantly zap around at very high average speeds.
 


I2004 said:
how often/how likely would these electrons in the compound likely get annihilated by anti-electrons?
Are you talking about electrons as quasi-particles, which is the particle in a more classical sense? Or are you continuing the line of questions you had about creation-annihilation in field theory?
 


You need some kind of collision or absorption to take place for an atom or molecule to lose an electron and become ionized. So, it depends on what kind of collisions take place. In a plasma, the ionization rate depends on the number density of each particle species and energy distribution of each species and any incoming radiation. The higher the density, the more ionizing collisions. In plasmas where the ion temperature is not much greater than the electron temperature, the electrons move much faster than nuclei, so electron-ion collisions may be the dominant ionizing contribution.
Molecules could also be ionized by UV or x-rays.

To calculate the rates, you need the cross sections, which are tabulated for some elements, but the data are not very accurate or complete, especially for heavier elements.
 


Khashishi said:
You need some kind of collision or absorption to take place for an atom or molecule to lose an electron and become ionized. So, it depends on what kind of collisions take place. In a plasma, the ionization rate depends on the number density of each particle species and energy distribution of each species and any incoming radiation. The higher the density, the more ionizing collisions. In plasmas where the ion temperature is not much greater than the electron temperature, the electrons move much faster than nuclei, so electron-ion collisions may be the dominant ionizing contribution.
Molecules could also be ionized by UV or x-rays.

To calculate the rates, you need the cross sections, which are tabulated for some elements, but the data are not very accurate or complete, especially for heavier elements.

cheers!
 

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