Expanding a bracket of derivatives

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the manipulation of derivatives involving the operator \(\frac{d}{dx}\) and a function \(z(x)\). Participants explore the differences in results obtained from two methods of expanding brackets and applying derivatives, questioning the implications of operator commutativity.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of the derivative operator and the function \(z(x)\), questioning the nature of \(z\) and its interaction with the operators. There is an exploration of the non-commutative property of the operators involved, with some suggesting to apply the operators to \(z(x)\) without multiplying prematurely.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the application of operators and the importance of maintaining order in operations. Some have pointed out potential errors in the original poster's reasoning regarding the misuse of the derivative operator, while others seek clarification on definitions and references related to the operators.

Contextual Notes

There is a lack of specific information about the function \(z(x)\) apart from it being a function of \(x\). Participants are also navigating the implications of homework rules regarding the manipulation of derivatives and the necessity of understanding operator behavior.

etotheipi
Homework Statement
Show that [itex](\frac{d}{dx} +x)(-\frac{d}{dx} + x)z = -\frac{d^{2}z}{dx^{2}}+x^{2}z + z[/itex]
Relevant Equations
N/A
I am wondering why the two methods below give different answers. If I multiply z through the second bracket I get $$(\frac{d}{dx} +x)(-\frac{dz}{dx} + xz)$$which, on expansion, yields $$-\frac{d}{dx}\frac{dz}{dx} -x\frac{dz}{dx} + \frac{d(xz)}{dx} + x^{2}z = -\frac{d^{2}z}{dx^{2}} + x^{2}z + z$$ via the product rule on the third term, as required. However, if instead I expand the brackets first before multiplying through by z, I get$$(-\frac{d}{dx}\frac{d}{dx} -x\frac{d}{dx} + x\frac{d}{dx} + x^{2})z = -\frac{d^{2}z}{dx^{2}} + x^{2}z$$ I know the error has something to do with misusing the \frac{d}{dx} operator, but I can't pinpoint it.
 
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What is / does ##z##? Is it left multiplication with a variable called ##z##? What is / does ##z.f(x)##?

I would apply the entire thing to a function ##f## and work with usual derivatives. And note that they are not commutative!
 
Last edited:
Yes, please define and/or give refs for the operator.
 
fresh_42 said:
What is / does ##z##? Is it left multiplication with a variable called ##z##? What is / does ##z.f(x)##?

I would apply the entire thing to a function ##f## and work with usual derivatives. And note that they are not commutative!

WWGD said:
Yes, please define and/or give refs for the operator.

Sorry I should have added, that z(x) is some function of x, though no other information is given apart from that and the problem statement.
 
Then apply the operators to ##z(x)## and write ##\dfrac{d}{dx}z(x)=z'(x)##. But do not multiply. Chances are you make a mistake since multiplication isn't commutative.
$$
(\frac{d}{dx} +x)(-\frac{d}{dx} + x)z =\left(\frac{d}{dx} +x\right)\left[\left((-\frac{d}{dx} + x)z\right)\right]
$$
 
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etotheipi said:
However, if instead I expand the brackets first before multiplying through by z, I get$$(-\frac{d}{dx}\frac{d}{dx} -x\frac{d}{dx} + x\frac{d}{dx} + x^{2})z = -\frac{d^{2}z}{dx^{2}} + x^{2}z$$ I know the error has something to do with misusing the \frac{d}{dx} operator, but I can't pinpoint it.

The operators ##x## and ##\frac{d}{dx}## do not commute. That should be:
$$(-\frac{d}{dx}\frac{d}{dx} -x\frac{d}{dx} + \frac{d}{dx}x + x^{2})z $$
And the two terms in the middle do not cancel.

By the way, just out of interest, the fact that ##x## and ##\frac{d}{dx}## do not commute is actually at the heart of Quantum Mechanics.
 
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fresh_42 said:
Then apply the operators to ##z(x)## and write ##\dfrac{d}{dx}z(x)=z'(x)##. But do not multiply. Chances are you make a mistake since multiplication isn't commutative.
$$
(\frac{d}{dx} +x)(-\frac{d}{dx} + x)z =\left(\frac{d}{dx} +x\right)\left[\left((-\frac{d}{dx} + x)z\right)\right]
$$

PeroK said:
The operators ##x## and ##\frac{d}{dx}## do not commute. That should be:
$$(-\frac{d}{dx}\frac{d}{dx} -x\frac{d}{dx} + \frac{d}{dx}x + x^{2})z $$
And the two terms in the middle do not cancel.

By the way, just out of interest, the fact that ##x## and ##\frac{d}{dx}## do not commute is actually at the heart of Quantum Mechanics.

Thank you, I think I now understand. My mistake was exactly that, assuming that each term obtained by expanding the brackets could commute when in fact the order of the different terms must be maintained as per the brackets.
 

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