Explain Why Wind Power Works But Permanent Magnet Power Doesn't

  • #1

Main Question or Discussion Point

Wind power is a force of nature and it has been used for centuries like for Dutch Windmills.

Permanet magnets are a force of nature which through innovation have now been produced so well that they can now hold up to 500 times their own weight. That is a lot of power.

The only difference I see between wind and magentic force is that the force of magnetism has a few more restrictions. Just as a sailing ship has to direct it's sails in the direction of the wind so does a large magnet have to be focused to aim carefully at a precise angle on the ferris wheel to exert it's greatest force. The Ferris Wheel would have a repelling magnet on its side springing off the main stationary magnet as it approaches every rotation. The main stationary magnet could be shielded so that the magnetic force would be directed at the best angle to give it the most effective boost.

There are even some advantages of permanent magnets over wind power since wind is inconsistant and depends on weather condtions. No such inconsistancy with permanent magnets.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
2,985
13
Fundamentally, what you propose sounds wrong because your getting something from nothing.
 
  • #3
90
5
Force is not energy

Wind power is a force of nature and it has been used for centuries like for Dutch Windmills.

Permanet magnets are a force of nature which through innovation have now been produced so well that they can now hold up to 500 times their own weight. That is a lot of power.

magnets.
You confuse force with energy. Furthermore magnets just accumulate magnetic energy and don't produce energy - they must be loaded! If it was such simple generate energy, why
those worlwide energy issues? :tongue:
 
  • #4
And what do you get from wind? You are getting something from nothing from a force of nature. In just one place in California at Altamont pass they have a Wind farm, believe it or not, with thousands of wind turbines that look like a 3 bladed fan.

What I propose is that that you take such a device, set it down flat and let it spin so it doesn't fight gravity, use strong permanet magnets surrounding the fan on the outside, shield the magnets surrounding the fan magnets so that the force comes at an angle that will give the most efficient propulsion and let the the force of the permanent magnets propel this fan-like object and create power.
 
  • #5
I don't confuse force with energy. What do you call it when you try to put two powerful magnets north end to north end together. I would say that that is a pretty dam strong force. I would say that the propulsion of that force would produce some pretty good energy.

Why this world wide energy crises because sometimes the simplest solutions are completely overlooked and not developed. Windpower is just one example. Also, permanent magnetic power had not been strong enough until just about 5 years ago when some new innovations were made and they made some substantial improvements. In fact, some of these improvements are even government classified information.
 
  • #6
2,985
13
And what do you get from wind? You are getting something from nothing from a force of nature. In just one place in California at Altamont pass they have a Wind farm, believe it or not, with thousands of wind turbines that look like a 3 bladed fan.

What I propose is that that you take such a device, set it down flat and let it spin so it doesn't fight gravity, use strong permanet magnets surrounding the fan on the outside, shield the magnets surrounding the fan magnets so that the force comes at an angle that will give the most efficient propulsion and let the the force of the permanent magnets propel this fan-like object and create power.

Thats not true at all. There is energy in the wind already. You are getting something from something, at the price of efficiency.
 
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  • #7
2,985
13
I don't confuse force with energy. What do you call it when you try to put two powerful magnets north end to north end together. I would say that that is a pretty dam strong force. I would say that the propulsion of that force would produce some pretty good energy.

Why this world wide energy crises because sometimes the simplest solutions are completely overlooked and not developed. Windpower is just one example. Also, permanent magnetic power had not been strong enough until just about 5 years ago when some new innovations were made and they made some substantial improvements. In fact, some of these improvements are even government classified information.
Er, windpower has not been 'overlooked'. Its been around and used for at least a hundred years if not more.
 
  • #8
1,041
4
A magnet is a lot like a big rock at the top of a mountain. There's a lot of energy there but you only get to use it once before somebody has to do lots of work (more than we got out) to put it back. Windpower ultimately comes from the sun - thanks, sun. We don't have to do any work to get the sun to shine, only a reasonably small amount to make the sunshine useful.
 
  • #9
vanesch
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
5,028
16
I don't confuse force with energy.
I'm sorry but you do. You could just as well ask: why don't we gain power from all that soil that is lying there, putting a lot of weight on the ground.

Energy is force x displacement. Power is energy per unit of time. So if you have a strong magnet, and you want to "use the force of attraction" of that magnet, you need for something to be displaced with that force: for instance, a piece of iron. The iron that is far away, and is attracted by the magnet, and moves hence up to the magnet, has indeed received some energy from the magnet. After that, it sits on top of the magnet, and the magnetic field has now decreased with exactly such an amount as the energy was gained by the piece of iron. You can do this still 5 or 10 times, and now the magnet is entirely cluttered with iron, and the magnetic field has decreased to a point where it becomes useless.

If you want now to remove those pieces, you will need exactly the same amount of energy to get them away as you could extract in the first place.

Wind is entirely different: it is an air mass in motion, like a flow of water. Something gave this air mass its motion (mainly temperature differences due to sunlight, and the resulting pressure differences), so the moving air got some energy from somewhere. If we put a windmill somewhere, we slow down a bit this air mass, and the lost energy of motion goes into the motion of the blades of the windmill, which in turn can crank a generator.

Something that is in motion has a certain energy (kinetic energy). By slowing it down, you can extract part of that energy. That's what happens with a windmill.
 
  • #10
99
1
I don't confuse force with energy. What do you call it when you try to put two powerful magnets north end to north end together. I would say that that is a pretty dam strong force. I would say that the propulsion of that force would produce some pretty good energy.
When you "...put two powerful magnets north end to north end tegether." you are, for lack of a better term, manually loading them with energy. You are forcing them together with your hands and they are responding with force. Not energy, force. But the force is only in response to the force you apply. You are adding energy by forcing them together. The only energy or work that you can get from the magnets pushing themselves apart from each other is the energy you put in by pushing them together.
 
  • #11
russ_watters
Mentor
19,341
5,377
What do you call it when you try to put two powerful magnets north end to north end together. I would say that that is a pretty dam strong force. I would say that the propulsion of that force would produce some pretty good energy.
Though already mentioned in abstract, I'll be a little more specific about what you are proposing: in this case, if you align two magnets N/S to N/S, the system only produces energy during the short time when the magnets spin to align themselves N/S to S/N. To get more energy, you would have to add energy to the system (using your hand), to "reset" them back to their original position.
Also, permanent magnetic power had not been strong enough until just about 5 years ago when some new innovations were made and they made some substantial improvements. In fact, some of these improvements are even government classified information.
Sorry, there is no such thing as "permanent magnetic power" and no government conspiracy to hide such a thing.
What I propose is that that you take such a device, set it down flat and let it spin so it doesn't fight gravity, use strong permanet magnets surrounding the fan on the outside, shield the magnets surrounding the fan magnets so that the force comes at an angle that will give the most efficient propulsion and let the the force of the permanent magnets propel this fan-like object and create power.
That's a classic permanent magnet motor perpetual motion machine, and it doesn't exist. It is a fundamental violation of conservation of energy. It is also the modern incarnation of the self-powered water wheel. People waste lifetimes (and life savings') developing PMM's that are fundamentally impossible. Please don't be one of them.

Please be advised that this is not a place where we give a forum for conspiracy theories and crackpot ideas.
 
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