Father puts .45 rounds into teenage girl's laptop

[Pythagorean]

I'm not. You had conflated them; I'm just making you face it. You have repeatedly compare <your idea of good parenting> against <threatening people with guns>.

You even rejected Jasongreat's attempt to disentangle the notions and just talk about the notion of threatening to permanently take away her computer if she used it inappropriately, and following through.

Jason attempted to make the discussion about several different irrelevant political points... that's an entanglement, not disentangling. He even made a personal reference to my statehood. It's interesting that you'd chose not to nitpick his post to death. I'm still not convinced your time is being well spent unless it's for you to face your own cognitive distortions.

As I said in the last post (the part you omitted) use of a gun is bonus points. It's modular. Similar to in the justice system: you get in lots of trouble for assault, you get in more trouble for assault with a gun. Just having a gun isn't an issue. Just assaulting IS an issue. Assaulting WITH a gun is a bigger issue.

 

[Char. Limit]

Why is shooting a laptop with a gun worse than bashing it with a baseball bat?

 

[wuliheron]

Last year 4,500 children were admitted to hospitals in the US for child abuse, of those 300 died, and probably about half of those were less then a year old. One county in Florida decided since child abuse is a crime they'd send the cops to investigate instead of social workers. When word got around the calls flooded in so fast within two years they had to double the size of the police force and quadruple the number of social workers. The US has by far the worst record for child abuse in the developed world and some father shooting his teenage daughter's laptop just isn't worth my time, but evidently somebody could make money off the guy by giving him his own reality TV show.

 

[ThomasT]

Why is shooting a laptop with a gun worse than bashing it with a baseball bat?

Maybe that's what the Dad should have done ... to better convey his disagreement with his daughter's apparently unwarranted disrespect and ungratefulness.

 

[Char. Limit]

Last year 4,500 children were admitted to hospitals in the US for child abuse, of those 300 died, and probably about half of those were less then a year old. One county in Florida decided since child abuse is a crime they'd send the cops to investigate instead of social workers. When word got around the calls flooded in so fast within two years they had to double the size of the police force and quadruple the number of social workers. The US has the worst record by far for child abuse of any country in the developed world and some father shooting his teenage daughter's laptop just isn't worth my time, but evidently somebody could make money off the guy by giving him his own reality TV show.

CPS visited the guy's house. Declared it wasn't abusive. They're more official and I'd trust their opinion a lot more than anyone on this forum. Can we quit with the child abuse thread?

 

[ThomasT]

Last year 4,500 children were admitted to hospitals in the US for child abuse, of those 300 died, and probably about half of those were less then a year old. One county in Florida decided since child abuse is a crime they'd send the cops to investigate instead of social workers. When word got around the calls flooded in so fast within two years they had to double the size of the police force and quadruple the number of social workers. The US has by far the worst record for child abuse in the developed world and some father shooting his teenage daughter's laptop just isn't worth my time, but evidently somebody could make money off the guy by giving him his own reality TV show.

I think you're a bit off topic.

 

[thorium1010]

Why is shooting a laptop with a gun worse than bashing it with a baseball bat?

How did he affect his daughter to change her behavior with his actions ?

 

[Char. Limit]

How did he affect his daughter to change her behavior with his actions ?

That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking Pythagorean why shooting something to destroy it is inherently worse than using some other method.

 

[thorium1010]

That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking Pythagorean why shooting something to destroy it is inherently worse than using some other method.

I think Pythagorean was asking a larger question - what his actions has taught his daughter ?

 

[Char. Limit]

As I said in the last post (the part you omitted) use of a gun is bonus points. It's modular. Similar to in the justice system: you get in lots of trouble for assault, you get in more trouble for assault with a gun. Just having a gun isn't an issue. Just assaulting IS an issue. Assaulting WITH a gun is a bigger issue.

Why is shooting a laptop with a gun worse than bashing it with a baseball bat?

I think Pythagorean was asking a larger question - what his actions has taught his daughter ?

That's too bad, because as you see in the quote above, he makes the claim that using a gun is WORSE. I want to know WHY.

 

[Hurkyl]

Jason attempted to make the discussion about several different irrelevant political points...

So... shooting a laptop is bad parenting, but donating it to charity is an irrelevant political point?

Of course, you're referring to other parts of his post, and not paying any attention to the part about trying to separate your ideas on parenting from your ideas on guns.

He even made a personal reference to my statehood. It's interesting that you'd chose not to nitpick his post to death.

He wasn't the one being self-contradictory. He does deserve a minus for a throw-away remark, though, but IMO nothing worth making a sub-thread to specifically highlight.

I had gone through several revisions of my earlier posts -- one of them asks how you would have responded if he had simply asked this paragraph with the throwaway remark removed

Why do we discount that she was warned, he did exactly what he said he would do? He seems like an emotional stable person. Did you read the interview, posted earlier? Like I asked, would you feel he was in the wrong for donating the computer to charity? It is still not hers anymore, how about destroying it with a bat? There is no difference, a gone computer is a gone computer, does it really matter how it was taken away?

but I wound up deciding it's not worth it anyways. And besides, Jasongreat himself had already made a post narrowing down to this topic.

 

[thorium1010]

That's too bad, because as you see in the quote above, he makes the claim that using a gun is WORSE. I want to know WHY.

well i will not speculate what pythagorean meant. However his actions just conveyed to me when your child disobeys you destroy property (in this case laptop )of the child and make a video of it and post it on net. Tomorrow he may find similar nonsense on her phone, will he put a bullet in her phone too?

 

[Pythagorean]

That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking Pythagorean why shooting something to destroy it is inherently worse than using some other method.

Oh, that was at me? It's not.

 

[ThomasT]

well i will not speculate what pythagorean meant. However his actions just conveyed to me when your child disobeys you destroy property (in this case laptop )of the child and make a video of it and post it on net. Tomorrow he may find similar nonsense on her phone, will he put a bullet in her phone too?

Hopefully, at some point he'll attempt to explain to his daughter why her actions were unnacceptable. And why he did what he did with the laptop.

Apparently, they have a very strong willed and intelligent daughter who isn't interested in being part of their family 'group', and desires a certain independence. For some kids this happens earlier than others. In my experience, when this happens, then pretty much all the parents can do is to cut the ties and say goodbye and good luck.

 

[Pythagorean]

sorry, missed this post until Hurkyl pointed it out.

He warned his daughter of the actions he was thinking of, he did exactly what he said he would do, how is this not a life lesson for his daughter? From what I have read she seemed to have an entitlement attitude, he showed her that, I provided you with the comoputer, I have warned about the use of that computer, if you choose to use said computer for what he considered wrong, he would destroy said computer. She chose to test him, her computer is now gone, how was he in the wrong? He did exactly what he said he would do.

Of course he shouldn't have threatened her in the first place. But the point is that this isn't going to be effective in adjusting her long-term behavior in the way he would want. It was mostly self-serving to the father's ego. What's going to influence her behavior more is how he behaves. If you demonstrate self-control, your kids will pick it up much quicker. If you demonstrate emotional instability, your kids are more likely to have learning problems.

I'm not saying the father regularly demonstrates this kind of instability, but as a society we shouldn't respond in a supportive way to that behavior.

I do disagree in the public manner it was done, but as I have said earlier,she dissed him in public, he dissed her in public, isn't that an eye for an eye? I don't see what he could have done differently, he warned her, he had to follow through, or what would that say?

Firstly, you're post seems to assume his actions fixed the problem. Secondly, we don't do things "eye for an eye" in modern society. For instance, you don't hit your child when they hit you. You demonstrate your self-control so that they pick it up years later (you seem to be expecting immediate results... that's not how teaching by example works.)

 

[thorium1010]

Apparently, they have a very strong willed and intelligent daughter who isn't interested in being part of their family 'group', and desires a certain independence. For some kids this happens earlier than others. In my experience, when this happens, then pretty much all the parents can do is to cut the ties and say goodbye and good luck.

well that's disappointing. However i would question her intelligence though she may be strong willed . She has yet to show any kind of intelligence judging by her actions.

 

[ThomasT]

well that's disappointing ...

Not really. They've got to leave sometime. Some leave earlier, some later, and some never leave. The ones that hang on too long are really annoying. My grandpa was on his own at 13, me at 16. If the OP Dad's kid is really as unhappy with her situation as it seems, then she should just leave.

EDIT: Here's how think it will play out. Either the daughter will conform to the rules of the household, or she'll leave. If she leaves and is successful, then great, and I feel sure that her parents will be happy for her. If she isn't successful, and has to return home, then I feel sure that her parents will welcome her back. But if she stays or comes back, then she should probably get with the program (which doesn't seem all that demanding) because there's no telling what her father might shoot up next.

 

[Hurkyl]

Of course he shouldn't have threatened her in the first place. But the point is that this isn't going to be effective in adjusting her long-term behavior in the way he would want. It was mostly self-serving to the father's ego. What's going to influence her behavior more is how he behaves. If you demonstrate self-control, your kids will pick it up much quicker. If you demonstrate emotional instability, your kids are more likely to have learning problems.

When a child abuses a privilege, taking it away is "stroking one's ego", and an example of "emotional instability"?

Or were you referring to the act of discussing it and giving a warning ahead of time? (that's still worth a )

 

[nitsuj]

i was fortunate.

Teenage daughter's penance was to go see Jerry McGuire movie and report back to me "What behavior makes things start to go right for him?"
I made her take boyfriend , i paid for admission but not popcorn.

She came back with correct answer "When he started making honest effort."

That started the dialog we'd been needing to have.
Long story short - turning point, happy ending.

"Show me the money " ? Hogwash. Earn the money.

Very clever "parenting" technique! I not good enough with words to explain my self simply, but the "medium" for the lesson was age appropriate, and not you . Maybe more specificaly I mean she saw "it" with her own eyes/ figured "it" out on her own.

 

[Pythagorean]

When a child abuses a privilege, taking it away is "stroking one's ego", and an example of "emotional instability"?

Or were you referring to the act of discussing it and giving a warning ahead of time? (that's still worth a )

It was the way he did it, not what he did.

The father was visibly shaken and his feeling were hurt by his daughter's words. And his choice of words further demonstrates this. He went further and publicly demonstrated aggression on her possessions.

Whether he takes away privileges or not is irrelevant to the actual parenting issue. It's about his tone, his attitude, and his method of revoking privilege; they demonstrates to those he is role-model to that it's okay to destroy people's possessions in anger.

 

[Integral]

Wow, this thread just keeps on going.

One thing that would be nice to know is how many posting in this thread have teenage daughters?

I do. My track record with 3 sons in their 30s and a teenage daughter, is no destructive drug use, no problems with the law and 4 respectful, responsible kids (now adults).

This guys bad parenting did not start with this laptop incident. The daughter they have is a result of a lifetime of bad parenting. Personally, I cannot think of a single thing that would require the use of gun to make a point with my daughter. I see the use of a gun as a act of violence, while I have used violence in disciplining my children, I have restricted it to a open hand applied forcefully to the butt. Frankly I regret some of that.

Once a child has reached teenage, really it is to late to discipline them. If you have not taught them proper behavior and respect by that time, all corporeal punishment will accomplish is to further alienate them. At that age they are young adults, and should be treated that way, treating them any other way will not suddenly turn them into responsible adults.

Clearly this father has NOT taught his daughter respect, it is now to late to beat it into here. ( Yes I equate shooting the laptop as a form of beating). He may be facing worse issues in the near future.

 

[Evo]

What part of the daughter's comments on FB were PRIVATE, not public, are people not getting?

After a 15 year-old U.S. teenager wrote an angry note about her parents but hidden from them on a social networking site

He found the entry by getting into her FB account.

This guy is a very poor parent, IMO. He can't take that his teenaged daughter is complaining privately to her friends? He needs counseling.

 

[nitsuj]

Wow, this thread just keeps on going.

One thing that would be nice to know is how many posting in this thread have teenage daughters?

I do. My track record with 3 sons in their 30s and a teenage daughter, is no destructive drug use, no problems with the law and 4 respectful, responsible kids (now adults).

This guys bad parenting did not start with this laptop incident. The daughter they have is a result of a lifetime of bad parenting. Personally, I cannot think of a single thing that would require the use of gun to make a point with my daughter. I see the use of a gun as a act of violence, while I have used violence in disciplining my children, I have restricted it to a open hand applied forcefully to the butt. Frankly I regret some of that.

Once a child has reached teenage, really it is to late to discipline them. If you have not taught them proper behavior and respect by that time, all corporeal punishment will accomplish is to further alienate them. At that age they are young adults, and should be treated that way, treating them any other way will not suddenly turn them into responsible adults.

Clearly this father has NOT taught his daughter respect, it is now to late to beat it into here. ( Yes I equate shooting the laptop as a form of beating). He may be facing worse issues in the near future.

The best comment on this I think.

 

[nitsuj]

He can't take that his teenaged daughter is complaining privately to her friends? He needs counseling.

lol, hopefully he doesn't happen across this thread. Some servers might get shot up!

 

[ThomasT]

This guys bad parenting did not start with this laptop incident. The daughter they have is a result of a lifetime of bad parenting.

There's no way you could possibly know that. In fact, bad kids do sometimes happen to good people.

Clearly this father has NOT taught his daughter respect ...

Sometimes it's not a matter of teaching. Some kids really are just bad kids, and they'll grow up to be bad adults. Sociopaths, psychopaths -- or less extreme variations on those themes, but still what most of us would consider not good people. Ungrateful people, complainers, manipulators, etc.

This guy's daughter seems like not a very good person. So, if she were my daughter, no I wouldn't shoot her laptop, I'd just cut her loose. That's it, you're on your own. You're welcome back whenever you're ready to be a grateful, contributing member of the family. Otherwise, goodbye and good luck.

 

[xxChrisxx]

This guy is a good parent. It was a swift but decisive way to show that his daughter was wrong. He used hollow points, to really show that he means business.

The only thing that would have improved this parenting example is if he had used an action move one liner before gunning that laptop down.

"Tweet THIS"
or similar.

Plus he has a cool hat.

 

[Integral]

There's no way you could possibly know that. In fact, bad kids do sometimes happen to good people.

Sometimes it's not a matter of teaching. Some kids really are just bad kids, and they'll grow up to be bad adults. Sociopaths, psychopaths -- or less extreme variations on those themes, but still what most of us would consider not good people. Ungrateful people, complainers, manipulators, etc.

This guy's daughter seems like not a very good person. So, if she were my daughter, no I wouldn't shoot her laptop, I'd just cut her loose. That's it, you're on your own. You're welcome back whenever you're ready to be a grateful, contributing member of the family. Otherwise, goodbye and good luck.

Sorry, I do not agree with you. Other then cutting her loose, best thing he could do now.

Sometimes it is not clear what constitutes good or bad parenting. Every child is unique and has different needs so no single set of rules applies to all.

 

[Evo]

This guy is a good parent. It was a swift but decisive way to show that his daughter was wrong. He used hollow points, to really show that he means business.

The only thing that would have improved this parenting example is if he had used an action move one liner before gunning that laptop down.

"Tweet THIS"
or similar.

Plus he has a cool hat.

He invaded her privacy by getting into her FB account to read her PRIVATE messages. That's like breaking the lock on her diary. This guy has emotional problems. Children are entitled to talk privately to their friends.

 

[ThomasT]

... cutting her loose, best thing he could do now.

Ok, we agree on that. But you know that would be really hard to do wrt a 15 or 16 year old kid. And I thinK I can understand the father's frustration. He's got a difficult daughter. How do you deal with that?

Sometimes it is not clear what constitutes good or bad parenting. Every child is unique and has different needs so no single set of rules applies to all.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I think that there are certain norms or rules that everybody should be expected to conform/adhere to. And I think that this guy's daughter broke the rules.

 

[xxChrisxx]

He invaded her privacy by getting into her FB account to read her PRIVATE messages. That's like breaking the lock on her diary.

You say that like it's a bad thing.His house, his rules.
When you have a hat as cool as his, you can do anything.