Finding limitations for matrix

  • Thread starter Thread starter nuuskur
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Matrix
AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on finding matrices X such that A·X equals A', where A' is A with its second and fourth columns swapped. The size of matrix X is determined to be 4x4, and the participant struggles to derive conditions for X, noting that they have three equations with four variables. They express frustration with their current approach and seek suggestions for a more effective method to establish the necessary conditions for X. A potential solution is hinted at, suggesting that X could resemble the identity matrix with specific column swaps, but the participant remains unsatisfied with this deduction-based reasoning.
nuuskur
Science Advisor
Messages
920
Reaction score
1,221

Homework Statement


Let A\in Mat_{3,4}(K). Find all matrices X such that \forall X| A\cdot X = A', where A' is the same as A with 2nd and 4th column swapped.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


First we determine the size of matrix X. By definition the first factor must have as many columns as the second has rows and the end product is A_{m,n}\cdot B_{n,p} = C_{m,p}. X must be 4 x 4. Let a'_{i,j}\in A', a_{i,j}\in A

Haven't been able to (in my opinion) come up with anything sensible. Essentially, I have noticed that if we denote rows of A and columns of X as vectors, such that a_1 = (a_{1,1},a_{1,2},a_{1,3},a_{1,4})(by row up to a3) and x_1 = (x_{1,1},x_{2,1},x_{3,1},x_{4,1})(by column up to x4)
Then the dot products equal to the corresponding element of A except when we multiply by either x2 or x4. Problem is, where do I find the conditions for matrix X?
I can also write out the dot products individually, but then I have 3 equations and 4 variables..

I have concluded that:
<br /> \begin{cases}<br /> a&#039;_{i,j} = a_{i,j}= \sum_{k=1}^4 a_{i,k}\cdot x_{k,j},&amp; j\in\{1,3\}\\<br /> a&#039;_{i,2} = \sum_{k=1}^4 a_{i,k}\cdot x_{k, 2} = a_{i,4}\\<br /> a&#039;_{i,4} = \sum_{k=1}^4 a_{i,k}\cdot x_{k, 4} = a_{i,2}<br /> <br /> \end{cases}<br /> <br />
THIS LOOKS UGLY! I can't think of any other way to show conditions for all x in X :s
This definitely is not acceptable, suggestions?

(I want to avoid writing out individual x - what if the dimensions of the matrix are countible? Would take a long time to write them out xD)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
If X were the identity matrix it would look like this: <br /> \begin{matrix}<br /> 1 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 1 &amp; 0 &amp; 0\\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1 &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1 \\<br /> \end{matrix}. The second row controls the second column in the product, and the fourth row controls the fourth column.
 
nuuskur said:

Homework Statement


Let A\in Mat_{3,4}(K). Find all matrices X such that \forall X| A\cdot X = A&#039;, where A' is the same as A with 2nd and 4th column swapped.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


First we determine the size of matrix X. By definition the first factor must have as many columns as the second has rows and the end product is A_{m,n}\cdot B_{n,p} = C_{m,p}. X must be 4 x 4. Let a&#039;_{i,j}\in A&#039;, a_{i,j}\in A

Haven't been able to (in my opinion) come up with anything sensible. Essentially, I have noticed that if we denote rows of A and columns of X as vectors, such that a_1 = (a_{1,1},a_{1,2},a_{1,3},a_{1,4})(by row up to a3) and x_1 = (x_{1,1},x_{2,1},x_{3,1},x_{4,1})(by column up to x4)
Then the dot products equal to the corresponding element of A except when we multiply by either x2 or x4. Problem is, where do I find the conditions for matrix X?
I can also write out the dot products individually, but then I have 3 equations and 4 variables..

I have concluded that:
<br /> \begin{cases}<br /> a&#039;_{i,j} = a_{i,j}= \sum_{k=1}^4 a_{i,k}\cdot x_{k,j},&amp; j\in\{1,3\}\\<br /> a&#039;_{i,2} = \sum_{k=1}^4 a_{i,k}\cdot x_{k, 2} = a_{i,4}\\<br /> a&#039;_{i,4} = \sum_{k=1}^4 a_{i,k}\cdot x_{k, 4} = a_{i,2}<br /> <br /> \end{cases}<br /> <br />
THIS LOOKS UGLY! I can't think of any other way to show conditions for all x in X :s
This definitely is not acceptable, suggestions?

(I want to avoid writing out individual x - what if the dimensions of the matrix are countible? Would take a long time to write them out xD)

Google 'matrix column operations'; for example, see
http://stattrek.com/matrix-algebra/elementary-operations.aspx
or
https://unapologetic.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/elementary-row-and-column-operations/

These show explicitly how to find the matrix X. (They leave unanswered the question of whether X is unique---they just show how to find one possible X.)
 
Okay, if I approach this deductively, then
a&#039;_{11} = a_{11}\cdot x_{11} + a_{12}\cdot x_{21} + a_{13}\cdot x_{31} + a_{14}\cdot x_{41} = a_{11} if x11 = 1, then the other three summands would sum to 0 and the resulting matrix is very similar to the identity matrix, BUT
x11 does not have to be 1 in which case everything breaks.

Intuitively I am quite sure that the X is the identity matrix with 2, 4 column swapped - but this is all deduction based math. I am not satisfied.
 
nuuskur said:
Okay, if I approach this deductively, then
a&#039;_{11} = a_{11}\cdot x_{11} + a_{12}\cdot x_{21} + a_{13}\cdot x_{31} + a_{14}\cdot x_{41} = a_{11} if x11 = 1, then the other three summands would sum to 0 and the resulting matrix is very similar to the identity matrix, BUT
x11 does not have to be 1 in which case everything breaks.

Intuitively I am quite sure that the X is the identity matrix with 2, 4 column swapped - but this is all deduction based math. I am not satisfied.

What is unsatisfactory about it? What is wrong with building on past knowledge developed by others?
 
Back
Top