Fired for a medical treatment

  • #51
mheslep
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Are you saying that their work didn't appear to suffer as opposed to 'you couldn't tell any difference' in their work? I've always wondered why all of our jobs were migrating overseas and down south....
:rofl:
 
  • #52
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Fact? The only fact on the table is that you posted some words on the internet. How do you actually know 1/2 the crew was high? Blood test 'em? On my crews if you were working dangerous gear, scaffling, whatever where other guys were depending on you, and you showed up high then you were very likely to get you a*s kicked and then fired.
How do I know? Because they would smoke in the trucks, on the roof, or take a ride for lunch. If you work right next to someone all day, you tend to get to know them very well--including their bad habbits.

I'll also replace the word fact with lets say observation. I observed roughly that many people out of all crews I've worked for having those habbits.
 
  • #53
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Are you saying that their work didn't appear to suffer as opposed to 'you couldn't tell any difference' in their work? I've always wondered why all of our jobs were migrating overseas and down south....
Construction jobs going overseas? More like illegal immigrants working for 50$ a day-- or homeowners hiring companies composed entirely of illegals.
 
  • #54
ShawnD
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I'm not really looking to stir-up any trouble, but they can indeed perform physical labor. I've been working construction a long time, and atleast 60% of every construction worker I've ever met gets high every day and continues to work perfectly fine-- even at extreme heights.
I worked construction one summer and I can honestly say at least half of the crew had very serious drug problems. If anything, their drug problems were what made them capable of working 12 hours per day, 6 days per week. Normal people get tired, sore, and hungry. Some of those guys would go all day without food. They would smoke nonstop and drink coffee at lunch time, but I would never see them eat anything.

Although this article is a bit upsetting, it doesn't seem that odd. Medication has very strong implications, so your choice of hiring or firing may not be related to the drugs themselves. Example: I would never hire somebody with bipolar disorder since most of them stop treatment in a very short time. I would not hire somebody who was taking illegal drugs because they might end up stealing things. I would not hire somebody with bad credit because it shows that they're completely incapable of basic adding and subtracting of numbers.
What is the implication behind pot? From personal experience I can tell you that a lot of potheads really are the lazy people you see on TV. Sure you can smoke once a week and be fine, but what if my employee is smoking 3 times per day? Will he still be fine, or will he become another loser who fits the stereotype?
 
  • #55
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I worked construction one summer and I can honestly say at least half of the crew had very serious drug problems. If anything, their drug problems were what made them capable of working 12 hours per day, 6 days per week. Normal people get tired, sore, and hungry. Some of those guys would go all day without food. They would smoke nonstop and drink coffee at lunch time, but I would never see them eat anything.

Although this article is a bit upsetting, it doesn't seem that odd. Medication has very strong implications, so your choice of hiring or firing may not be related to the drugs themselves. Example: I would never hire somebody with bipolar disorder since most of them stop treatment in a very short time. I would not hire somebody who was taking illegal drugs because they might end up stealing things. I would not hire somebody with bad credit because it shows that they're completely incapable of basic adding and subtracting of numbers.
What is the implication behind pot? From personal experience I can tell you that a lot of potheads really are the lazy people you see on TV. Sure you can smoke once a week and be fine, but what if my employee is smoking 3 times per day? Will he still be fine, or will he become another loser who fits the stereotype?
Shawn,

I believe you are seriously misinformed about bipolar illness. Not just you, but an opinion that runs the width and breadth of our society. There are many bipolar patients in various stages of denial/acceptance just as with any other illness or even strong personality trait. When I was married I had a bossy mother-in-law. Now I grant you most men see surrogate moms in this fashion and so their is undoubtedly a built in bias. But she really was, you gotta trust me. She was blind to it.

In all honesty I have seen a fair number of patients just as you describe--a revolving hospital door with charts that required boxes. But for every one of those, I know ten patients who are doing anywhere from so-so to spectacular: They keep their jobs, they make/keep appts, they prompt their pharmacy for refills suggesting at least tight compliance, and in some cases thru reading and internet review, know more about their illness than I.
 
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  • #56
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I have an uncle who was a truck driver. While driving a truck in New York he hit a large pothole on the highway. The truck he was in had faulty shocks. So when he hit this pothole his chair slammed him down and he burst 2 spinal discs. He had surgery to fuse those vertebrae together and is now disabled. He has been prescribed morphine for the chronic pain recieved from his injury.

Here's what bothers me about this situation. Firstly, the trucking company and the State of New York kept the law suit wrapped up in court for years and eventually it was dismissed due to some supposed error by my uncle's lawyer. I smell a rat somewhere in there. Secondly, my uncle is not an educated man and has performed physical labor his entire life. He can't work any more and must rely on his income from disability. There are people that check on him periodically to make sure that he isn't working, because if he does he will lose his disability. So, as a middle-aged man, my uncle's injury limited any potential for an improvement in his income and lifestyle.

If someone is capable of working and desires to do so then I think it would be wrong to exclude them from the work force based on a disability. They can either perform the job to the requirements, or they cannot. Anything else weighed into that equation is just discrimination. I'm talking about people with disabilities here, not addicts or sloths. There is a difference.
 
  • #57
BobG
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Fact? The only fact on the table is that you posted some words on the internet. How do you actually know 1/2 the crew was high? Blood test 'em? On my crews if you were working dangerous gear, scaffling, whatever where other guys were depending on you, and you showed up high then you were very likely to get you a*s kicked and then fired.
I only worked construction a few years and more than 25 years ago, so I can't comment on what construction is like today, but my experiences were more like mheslep's.

I'm pretty sure some of the workers used marijuana and nearly 100% probably drank fairly often. But I would have been shocked to see someone drunk or high on the job (except maybe roofers - I doubted their sanity even on a good day, so I wouldn't be surprised by anything they did). Well drillers (home water) were probably the only exception. They had a reputation for being alcoholics, but I imagine the reputation was overstated even for them since I know the younger crews weren't drinking.

I was a mason's assistant and I couldn't imagine working that job under medication or while drunk. Working on the scaffold was hard enough even sober since I had a fear of heights. I once dropped a cement mixer on my finger and I was scared to take the pain medication during the day. It seemed saner to endure the pain for a few since it usually quit hurting bad enough to notice much after working for awhile.
 
  • #58
ShawnD
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Shawn,

I believe you are seriously misinformed about bipolar illness. Not just you, but an opinion that runs the width and breadth of our society. There are many bipolar patients in various stages of denial/acceptance just as with any other illness or even strong personality trait. When I was married I had a bossy mother-in-law. Now I grant you most men see surrogate moms in this fashion and so their is undoubtedly a built in bias. But she really was, you gotta trust me. She was blind to it.

In all honesty I have seen a fair number of patients just as you describe--a revolving hospital door with charts that required boxes. But for every one of those, I know ten patients who are doing anywhere from so-so to spectacular: They keep their jobs, they make/keep appts, they prompt their pharmacy for refills suggesting at least tight compliance, and in some cases thru reading and internet review, know more about their illness than I.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9133756?dopt=Abstract
Studies of compliance with pharmacologic treatment in patients with bipolar disorder have primarily involved outpatients receiving lithium. To date, very little data addresses the rates of noncompliance in patients with bipolar disorder treated with other available mood stabilizers (e.g. divalproex, carbamazepine). One hundred and forty patients initially hospitalized for a bipolar disorder, manic or mixed episode, were evaluated prospectively over 1 year to assess their compliance with pharmacotherapy. Compliance was assessed by a clinician-administered questionnaire, using information from the patient, treaters, and significant others. Seventy-one patients (51%) were partially or totally noncompliant with pharmacologic treatment during the 1-year followup period. Noncompliance was significantly associated with the presence of a comorbid substance use disorder. Denial of need was the most common reason cited for noncompliance. Compliance was associated with being male and Caucasian and with treatment with combined lithium and divalproex or with this combination and an antipsychotic. Noncompliance with pharmacotherapy remains a substantial problem in the treatment of patients with bipolar disorder.
So basically the ones that are diagnosed by a professional as having bipolar disorder are as likely to not be treated as they are to be treated. Ticking time bomb.
 
  • #59
Moonbear
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I'm pretty sure some of the workers used marijuana and nearly 100% probably drank fairly often. But I would have been shocked to see someone drunk or high on the job (except maybe roofers - I doubted their sanity even on a good day, so I wouldn't be surprised by anything they did).
My step-brother was a roofer...until he fell off a roof and injured his back so badly he can't even walk many days (compression of the sciatic nerve...his one leg will completely go out from under him). His working days are over for that, but unfortunately, he did so many "under the table" jobs that his disability benefits are next to nothing. I keep looking out for clinical trials for him, because it's the only way he'll ever be able to get proper treatment, since he can't afford the surgery he really needs.

Anyway, he fell without being under the influence, but MANY of the guys he worked with would show up high or drunk, or would become drunk on the job. They also had a very high accident rate. He's seen some gruesome things on the job...like the guy who was drunk and fell off the roof into the boiling tar bucket thing. I only hope the fall killed him before the burning tar did.

These jobs are dangerous on a good day, and working them under the influence only makes them more dangerous. We need people to do those jobs though, so why should those willing to do the job only get a pittance in disability payments to live off of when they are injured on the job? And why should we expect them to return to work high on painkillers just to support their families when we know they shouldn't be doing that job when high?

I'm all for job retraining. If someone can still do SOME job well, even while taking prescription or non-prescription drugs for their pain, excellent, I'm sure they'd prefer that too. But, if those drugs, or their injury, prevents them from doing any job well, then they should qualify for sufficient disability benefits to support themselves and their families. There should also be some option for partial disability. For example, someone who can work part-time but not full-time should be able to do so and receive disability for the rest of that time. Some people can do a desk job for a half day, but if they have to sit there any longer, the pain starts and they can't work the full day and need to lie down. People with disabilities crave the dignity of earning their living, so shouldn't it be possible to let them work as much as they are able to work without losing all their benefits?
 
  • #60
BobG
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...like the guy who was drunk and fell off the roof into the boiling tar bucket thing. I only hope the fall killed him before the burning tar did....
Might be a nice wish but, usually, the fall doesn't kill you - the landing does.

If it was a really tall house and he landed right, he might have broken his neck on the bottom, but that was probably a very painful death.
 
  • #61
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I think a company should be able to hire and fire as they choose. Regardless of reason.
So you feel companies should be allowed to have racist hiring practices?
 
  • #62
mheslep
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So you feel companies should be allowed to have racist hiring practices?
'Allowed' by who? Customers? Employees? State? Feds?
 
  • #63
ShawnD
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So you feel companies should be allowed to have racist hiring practices?
As much as we'd like to legislate against racism, laws will not stop racism. If anything, they fuel racism by causing a lot of racial tension. If you're required to hire X number of black people and Y number of women, how much credibility will a black or female employee have? "Oh you got this job because you're black." That may not be the case, but realistically it could be true. The last thing in the world we want is for racists to actually have real world examples of ethnic minorities getting employed welfare by being hired simply because they're a certain color. We all hate the person who doesn't get fired even though they suck, regardless of race, but don't put specific races into that role (affirmative action) then act surprised when racism gets stronger and stronger.

Likewise, we can't realistically legislate against firing for drug use. Example: I find an employee smoking crack. I'm not going to say he's fired for smoking crack, I'll say he was fired because of his performance. What is the goverment going to say? That I should prove his performance was bad?
If you (anybody) have ever had a job in your entire life, you would know performance is the 'reason' for firing people. You were a jerk? Performance. You showed up late? Performance. You smelled really bad? Performance. You're black and it interferes with the company's weekly KKK meeting? Performance. Your hardcore christianity interfered with the boss' militant atheism? Performance.
 

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