First law of thermodynamics applied to Compression and Expansion

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the first law of thermodynamics to the compression and expansion of a gas at constant temperature. Participants explore the implications of this law in the context of ideal gases, focusing on the relationships between heat transfer, internal energy, and work done on or by the system.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the first law applies, suggesting that during compression at constant temperature, heat transfer (ΔQ) is zero, internal energy (ΔU) is positive, and work done on the system (W) is positive.
  • Another participant asserts that compression or expansion at constant temperature involves heat being extracted or added, indicating that ΔQ is not zero.
  • A third participant states that at constant temperature for an ideal gas, the change in internal energy (ΔU) is zero.
  • A follow-up request for clarification on why ΔU is zero for ideal gases is made, highlighting a desire for deeper understanding.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the relationship is based on experimental observations and mathematical backing, noting that it applies specifically to ideal or perfect gases and that the internal energy of a perfect gas depends solely on its temperature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the values of ΔQ and ΔU during compression and expansion at constant temperature, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about ideal gases, the dependence on definitions of internal energy, and the unresolved mathematical steps related to the first law of thermodynamics in this context.

hms.tech
Messages
246
Reaction score
0
How does the first law of thermodynamics apply to the Compression And expansion of a gas at constant temperature ?

If the gas is at a constant temperature and is being compressed, then
ΔQ = 0
ΔU = +
W(on the system) = +


Are those(^^) correct ?

The equation being :
ΔU = ΔQ + W(on the system)
 
Last edited:
Science news on Phys.org
Compression or expansion at constant temperature means heat is extracted or added.
 
At constant temperature ΔQ is not zero. ΔU is zero, for ideal gas.
 
nasu said:
At constant temperature ΔQ is not zero. ΔU is zero, for ideal gas.

would u explain "why" ?
 
would u explain "why" ?

Originally this was an experimental fact about gasses. Nowadays there is maths to back it up, and we know that it only applies to ideal or perfect gasses.




http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/JouleExperimentOnFreeExpansion/

If you can cope with the maths google has lots on the Joule experiment and the Joule-Thompson experiment.

If not you can take it as a definition of a perfect gas.

The internal energy of a perfect gas depends only on its temperature.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
7K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
958
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 45 ·
2
Replies
45
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K