Foliation of spacetime into spacelike hypersurfaces

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter spaghetti3451
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Spacetime
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of foliating spacetime into spacelike hypersurfaces and the role of isometries, specifically the vector field ##\partial_t##. Participants explore the implications of these concepts in the context of general relativity (GR) and question the accuracy of certain claims regarding isometries and their relationship to hypersurfaces.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a spacetime can be foliated by spacelike hypersurfaces related by an isometry ##\partial_t##.
  • Others challenge the claim that every spacetime possesses this property, suggesting that many spacetimes lack isometries.
  • One participant references a specific source to support their claims about the isometry and its implications for spacelike hypersurfaces.
  • A later reply emphasizes the advanced nature of the referenced source, suggesting it assumes prior knowledge of the described procedures.
  • Participants discuss the concept of isometries in the context of Minkowski spacetime and Schwarzschild spacetime, noting differences in geometry and observer experiences.
  • One participant seeks clarification on the relationship between isometries and static solutions of the metric, indicating a desire to understand the underlying technicalities of GR.
  • Another participant confirms that a static solution implies the existence of a timelike Killing vector field, which is hypersurface orthogonal.
  • References for further study in GR are suggested, including classic textbooks by Wald and Hawking & Ellis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the universality of isometries in spacetimes, with some asserting that not all spacetimes exhibit this property. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of isometries for the foliation of spacetime.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the referenced source discusses QFT on a Euclidean space rather than Minkowski spacetime, which may affect the interpretation of isometries in this context. There is also mention of the need for rigorous understanding of certain concepts related to vector fields and congruences.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in the technical aspects of general relativity, particularly those exploring the concepts of spacetime foliation, isometries, and their implications in different spacetime geometries.

spaghetti3451
Messages
1,311
Reaction score
31
A spacetime can be foliated by spacelike hypersurfaces which are related by an isometry ##\partial_t##.1. Why is ##\partial_{t}## called an isometry of the spacetime?

2. How are the spacelike hypersurfaces related by the isometry ##\partial_{t}##?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
spaghetti3451 said:
A spacetime can be foliated by spacelike hypersurfaces which are related by an isometry ##\partial_t##.

Are you saying every spacetime has this property? If so, that's not correct; many spacetimes have no isometries.

Or are you just referring to some particular spacetime? If so, which spacetime?

A source for where you are getting this from would also be helpful; your statement isn't really correct, since an isometry does not "relate" hypersurfaces in a foliation.
 
spaghetti3451 said:
Look at the sentence below the caption of figure 4 on page 8 of the notes.

Since this is an advanced source, it is assuming that readers already understand in detail the procedure that is being described here; so it doesn't have to explain that procedure in detail and with rigor. You should not be taking this wording to be part of such a detailed rigorous description.

Also, this section is talking about QFT on a Euclidean space, not on a Minkowski spacetime. So the "isometry" it is talking about is not the kind you will see in ordinary Minkowski spacetime. (Note that the word "spacelike", which you used in the OP, does not appear in the sentence you refer to in the paper.)

To illustrate how the foliation concept works in an ordinary (locally Lorentzian) spacetime, consider inertial coordinates on Minkowski spacetime. Each surface of constant coordinate time ##t## is a spacelike hypersurface, and the set of all such hypersurfaces foliates the entire spacetime. Furthermore, the coordinate basis vector ##\partial_t## in these coordinates generates an isometry; heuristically, "isometry" means that each of the spacelike hypersurfaces in the foliation has the same geometry (in this case, each one is just flat Euclidean 3-space). We say that ##\partial_t## "generates" this isometry because integral curves of this vector fields, which are just the worldlines of inertial observers at rest in these coordinates, form a timelike congruence (a family of worldlines that never intersect each other and which cover the entire spacetime), and an observer moving along any of these worldlines sees an unchanging spacetime geometry in his vicinity.

For another example, consider Schwarzschild spacetime outside the event horizon. Here the spacelike hypersurfaces that foliate the spacetime (more precisely, this region of the spacetime) are the surfaces of constant Schwarzschild coordinate time ##t##; and the timelike vector field that generates the isometry is again the coordinate basis vector ##\partial_t##. Again, each spacelike hypersurface has the same geometry (this time it's the Flamm paraboloid), and observers moving along integral curves of the isometry (call these "static" observers) see an unchanging spacetime geometry in their vicinity. The difference in this case, vs. the Minkowski case above, is that the spacetime geometry is different in the vicinity of different static observers (more precisely, static observers at different radius).

So the isometry doesn't "relate" the different spacelike hypersurfaces; it tells us which observers (which worldlines) see unchanging spacetime geometry in their vicinity. The spacelike hypersurfaces all have the same geometry; there's nothing to "relate".
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: cianfa72 and physAWAY221
This is interesting. I understand that you are talking about the wordlines for a set of static observers and the hypersurfaces seen by them which are orthogonal to these worldlines. Isn't the isometry there because you are talking about a static solution for the metric in both cases?

I am just getting into the technicalities of GR. Could you point me towards the references where I will be able to learn the following with rigor.
PeterDonis said:
integral curves of this vector fields

PeterDonis said:
a timelike congruence

PeterDonis said:
the timelike vector field that generates the isometry
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: kent davidge
physAWAY221 said:
Isn't the isometry there because you are talking about a static solution for the metric in both cases?

Yes, that is what "static" means: that there is a timelike Killing vector field (isometry) which is hypersurface orthogonal (the spacetime can be foliated by a family of spacelike hypersurfaces that are everywhere orthogonal to the integral curves of the isometry).

physAWAY221 said:
Could you point me towards the references where I will be able to learn the following with rigor.

The classic GR textbook that goes into this in some detail is Wald (1984). The more advanced classic source is Hawking & Ellis (1973).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: physAWAY221
Thanks. I will go look it up. :)
 

Similar threads

Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 41 ·
2
Replies
41
Views
3K
  • · Replies 41 ·
2
Replies
41
Views
5K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K