Controversial Forum Rules: Why Limiting Personal Theories is a Mistake

[Darcy MacIsaac]

If a moderator deletes this message please forward it to the site's owner. I just want to say I think the rule against personal theories sucks. I can understand moving them to some far corner of the site but to simply delete people's ideas seems wrong to me. It's your forum and you can limit it's use any way you want but I never thought in a million years a forum on physics wouldn't want people's thoughts and ideas. It's ridiculous if you think about it.

 

[AdityaDev]

What was your idea? Maybe you were not able to convey your idea properly.

 

[Darcy MacIsaac]

Afraid to say. Just personal theories on gravity and magnetism. Things that can't really be explained yet or agreed upon. I did include some ideas counter to "generally accepted" theories. Maybe I'm completely wrong but maybe I could of inspired one person with one thought. We'll never know now. Sad. Basically, I'm suggesting to remove those rules or make a section for crackpot theorists like me! :)

 

[Bandersnatch]

The aim of the forum is to help people understand mainstream science. As such, any speculation will detract from that goal by breeding misconceptions and attracting crackpots.
Keep in mind that the forum used to have a section on 'theory development', but it did not end well, so the current rules are the result of past experiences rather than arbitrary choice.

This post in the forum FAQ details the reasons behind the policy:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/physics-forums-faq-and-howto.617567/#post-4664231

This post from the now-defunct PF blog by one of the retired staff members gives some more insight on the matter:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...y-forum-like-we-need-a-computer-virus.765736/

I'm sure you can find plenty other places on the net where your ideas can be discussed, this one is just not the place.

 

[Darcy MacIsaac]

This is not the place by the owner's choice. I'm not happy with that choice. That's all I'm really saying in the end. The logic reasoning behind the rule is flawed. Every response in the thread you posted is wrong in my opinion. It should be left to professionals? Seriously? We tried? Seriously? It provided a severe blemish? Like really? Based on ignorance? Who's to judge that! It's all absurb imo. There's a reason so many crackpots like me have given the same feedback. Maybe that alone should make them rethink the policies. If all you want to do is help students that's your choice but crackpots are people who just love science. There's no harm or blemish on you from them.

 

[phinds]

... There's a reason so many crackpots like me have given the same feedback. Maybe that alone should make them rethink the policies.

Uh ... no, actually that is part of the REASON for the policy.

 

[ZapperZ]

Afraid to say. Just personal theories on gravity and magnetism. Things that can't really be explained yet or agreed upon. I did include some ideas counter to "generally accepted" theories. Maybe I'm completely wrong but maybe I could of inspired one person with one thought. We'll never know now. Sad. Basically, I'm suggesting to remove those rules or make a section for crackpot theorists like me! :)

Actually, what sucks more often is people who go to a vegetarian restaurant, and THEN complain that the restaurant serves no meat.

If you do not realize the connection of that statement with your complain, then it also proves another of my point.

Zz.

 

[Darcy MacIsaac]

How is that a reason? Because so many think as I do that is cause to make a policy against us? Maybe I wasn't clear. The point was many believe that challenging theories is a good thing. I can understand it might distract student's trying to learn but doesn't mean you have to shut it down. But it's not like distraction is some big bomb either. I see it as the only argument against allowing people to express their ideas so it's being used. How else can you argue challenging theories as being a bad thing? Is that the only real weak argument they got? I understand if it's something they just don't want to have to moderate but they can just say that. And I can say I think it's sad.

 

[ZapperZ]

How is that a reason? Because so many think as I do that is cause to make a policy against us? Maybe I wasn't clear. The point was many believe that challenging theories is a good thing. I can understand it might distract student's trying to learn but doesn't mean you have to shut it down. But it's not like distraction is some big bomb either. I see it as the only argument against allowing people to express their ideas so it's being used. How else can you argue challenging theories as being a bad thing? Is that the only real weak argument they got? I understand if it's something they just don't want to have to moderate but they can just say that. And I can say I think it's sad.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...y-forum-like-we-need-a-computer-virus.765736/

Zz.

 

[phinds]

Yep ... you're a meat eater who is REALLY pissed off that vegetarian restaurants don't serve what you like. Get over it and move on.

 

[Darcy MacIsaac]

Actually, what sucks more often is people who go to a vegetarian restaurant, and THEN complain that the restaurant serves no meat.

If you do not realize the connection of that statement with your complain, then it also proves another of my point.

Zz.

Oh I know it is my fault for assuming a forum about physics would allow open discussion on theories. Not saying I'm blameless. I'm sure many go to restaurants not knowing they don't serve meat. But when the restaurant is called ALL THE MEAT YOU CAN EAT. Well it's kinda surprising and frustrating.

 

[ZapperZ]

Oh I know it is my fault for assuming a forum about physics would allow open discussion on theories. Not saying I'm blameless. I'm sure many go to restaurants not knowing they don't serve meat. But when the restaurant is called ALL THE MEAT YOU CAN EAT. Well it's kinda surprising and frustrating.

Where did PF claim that? When you first joined this forum, you were told explicitly about the rules! In other words, there were bold signs that this is a vegetarian restaurant! And now, you somehow complain that about the rules. How irrational of a behavior is this? And how can such an irrational person expects to be able to carry out a logical, rational discussion about physics?

Zz.

 

[Darcy MacIsaac]

I saw no bold signs. I saw no rules. Maybe I skipped the fine print who doesn't?. I saw forum in the title which implies open discussions. That's my point. I wouldn't of guessed such rules would ever exist here. Yes it's my fault for assuming and skipping rules but that doesn't mean the rules make sense for a forum.

 

[ZapperZ]

I saw no bold signs. I saw no rules. Maybe I skipped the fine print who doesn't?. I saw forum in the title which implies open discussions. That's my point. I wouldn't of guessed such rules would ever exist here. Yes it's my fault for assuming and skipping rules but that doesn't mean the rules make sense for a forum.

It makes ENOUGH sense that this forum is held in high regards for the QUALITY of discussion, and that professional physicists, engineers, and scientists also come here!

We can talk about this all day, and ALL of your points have been addressed in many other threads on here. But what amazes me more and makes me shake my head is the level of arrogance and rudeness that people like you exhibit when you make such complains. You are still extremely new here, and without bothering to first learn how we operate, you are now bossing around trying to tell us how to run OUR forum! Do you also comment on how bad someone's house is decorated when you get invited to their home? Are you also as free to offer your ignorant opinion to someone you just barely met? Have you no sense of social etiquette and decorum?

This is a common symptoms exhibited by crackpots. They turn it around so that they bash the forums that somehow have the audacity to limit their ability to spew their garbage. This is without realizing that for many who wish to carry legitimate discussions, such bashing is a badge of honor that many of us proudly display! So thank you!

Zz.

 

[Bystander]

skipped the fine print

Greg's house --- Greg's rules. The rest of us kinda like it that way.

 

[Darcy MacIsaac]

That is true and that's why I asked for my message to be sent to him. I didn't intend to be rude in any way. Just expressing my opinion and thoughts. Maybe I was by using the word sucks in the title. Understandable after my post was deleted. Just expressing my aggravation. I explained it. I am new here and it's a problem that relates to knew people and their expectations. But it also relates to common sense. Free speech. And open exchange of ideas and opinions without being flamed for expressing opinions.

 

[Orodruin]

What crackpots, and you seem to honour yourself on being one although the term is definitely derogatory, usually fail to realize is why they are not allowed to post their personal theories here. The main reason for this is the common behaviour of crackpots in general and there is usually a pattern:

1. Reads some popular text about modern physics.
2. Thinks it is against "common sense" and declares war on the idea or starts speculating wildly based on the popular description.
3. Uses "common sense" or wild speculation to infer things that are obviously wrong (and we can usually tell so by inspection and comparison to observations).
4. Starts spreading the word and is amazed that the scientific establishment does not take them seriously.

The big problem here is that crackpots tend to think that their ideas are furthering science and providing alternatives, but they are not. They are simply providing noise that is blatantly wrong in 999999 cases out of a million (at least). This is (usually) not due to malice, but simply due to ignorance and the belief that you can "think outside the box" without knowing where the boundaries of the box are. This is the reason we ban personal theory and speculation, it simply leads to noise that completely covers the conversations that are at the heart of this forum, the teaching and understanding of modern science. Using the forums in this way might eventually help you get the knowledge about the box boundaries necessary to contribute in a meaningful way, but until such a point it is really just a question of blind men trying to describe an elephant, which is not very meaningful.

 

[Nugatory]

It's time to close this thread. This topic had been discussed many times, and the current policy is the result of years of experience trying to find a balance that works.