Four Momentum in General Relativity

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of four momentum in General Relativity (GR), particularly how it differs from Special Relativity (SR) and the implications of curved spacetime on its definition and interpretation. Participants explore the relationship between four momentum and four velocity, as well as the distinctions between covariant and contravariant forms of momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that in SR, four momentum is defined as p^α=mU^α, but questions whether this holds in curved space, suggesting that four momentum may be a covector in GR.
  • Another participant agrees that both p^α and p_α can be referred to as "the four momentum," but emphasizes the need to distinguish between the four momentum vector and covector.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the definition of p_0=-E in the context of the Schwarzschild metric, questioning the rationale behind defining p^0=g^{00}p_0=(1-{2M}/r)^{-1}E.
  • One participant clarifies that p_0=±p^0=±E holds only in metrics where the 00 component is ±1, and discusses the relationship between vector and covector momentum as p_{\mu}=g_{\mu\nu}p^{\nu}.
  • There is mention of additional relevant posts in the thread that may provide further insights.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and interpretations regarding the definitions and relationships of four momentum in GR, indicating that there is no consensus on the matter. Some participants agree on the distinction between covariant and contravariant forms, while others raise questions about specific definitions and conventions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the interpretation of four momentum can depend on the specific metric being used, and that the definitions may not always align with intuitive notions from SR. There are also unresolved questions regarding the conventions used in defining momentum in different contexts.

MrBillyShears
Gold Member
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Alright, I'm rather new to General Relativity, and I'm getting confused with four momentum. Back in SR, p^α=mU^α, but, this relationship doesn't hold in curved space, does it? Because, now I'm seeing that four momentum is somehow a covector in GR, and p_0=-E, so the time component of the contravariant component can't be E, since the 00 component of the metric isn't always -1. So, is four momentum now redefined in GR, and if the SR relationship between four velocity isn't valid, what is the new relationship to U? Is four momentum naturally a covariant thing?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
MrBillyShears said:
Back in SR, p^α=mU^α, but, this relationship doesn't hold in curved space, does it? Because, now I'm seeing that four momentum is somehow a covector in GR,
I am not sure if this is your concern, but you would probably call both ##p^α=mU^α## and ##p_α=mg_{\mu α}U^{\mu}## "the four momentum". If you need to distinguish between the two verbally you would call one "the four momentum vector" and the other "the four momentum covector".

MrBillyShears said:
and p_0=-E, so the time component of the contravariant component can't be E, since the 00 component of the metric isn't always -1.
##p_0=-E## would only hold in metrics where the 00 component is -1. In GR that won't always be the case. The 00 component may not be the time-time component. In fact, there may not even be a time-time component. Regardless, the definition above will hold, even if the components don't have such a clear interpretation.
 
That's ironic. I'm confused now too. In the introductory book I'm reading on GR, the author defines p_0=-E when discussing trajectories in the Schwarzschild metric, and then he goes to define p^0=g^{00}p_0=(1-{2M}/r)^{-1}E. Why does he do this then? Is this a matter of convention, defining the vector momentum from the covector momentum?
 
Sorry, I was indeed being a little ambiguous (actually a little wrong). What I was thinking and what I should have said is that ##p_0=\pm p^0=\pm E## only in metrics where the 00 component is ##\pm 1##, and even then only if the 0i components are 0 too.

The vector and covector momentum are always related as ##p_{\mu}=g_{\mu\nu}p^{\nu}##, regardless of the metric. The vector and the covector are in some ways fundamentally different quantities, but nevertheless it is a very strong convention to think of them as the same quantity just with raised or lowered indexes.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 50 ·
2
Replies
50
Views
4K
  • · Replies 67 ·
3
Replies
67
Views
7K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
8K