Free electrons and intrinsic spin magnetic dipole moment orientation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the orientation of the magnetic dipole moment of free electrons and their velocity vector. Participants explore theoretical implications and experimental observations, particularly in the context of free and bound electrons, and the effects of external fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether a free electron's magnetic spin dipole moment can be oriented in any arbitrary direction when traveling at constant velocity without external fields.
  • Others assert that the dipole moment does not couple to the classical velocity of a free electron, referencing Thomas precession as relevant for accelerating electrons.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of torque-free and force-free gyroscopes, with an analogy drawn to the orientation of a free electron's dipole moment.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the experimental measurement of the spin axis orientation of free electrons and its interaction with the Biot-Savart magnetic moment.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the applicability of Thomas precession to bound electrons in atomic orbitals, with a request for clarification on the spin axis orientation of electrons in a hydrogen atom.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between the magnetic dipole moment orientation and the velocity vector of free electrons. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the implications of Thomas precession and the conditions under which the dipole moment can be oriented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of magnetic moments and the unresolved nature of the experimental measurements regarding the orientation of electron spin in different contexts.

carrz
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Are there any experiments or theories about the relation between magnetic dipole moment orientation and velocity vector of free electrons?
 
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A free electron's dipole moment doesn't couple to its classical velocity for obvious reasons. For accelerating electrons see Thomas precession.
 
WannabeNewton said:
A free electron's dipole moment doesn't couple to its classical velocity for obvious reasons.

Just to make it clear, I'm not talking about the magnitude but spin axis orientation, i.e. North-South magnetic pole orientation. So are you saying that a single free electron traveling in a straight line with constant velocity, in absence of any external magnetic and electric fields, can have its magnetic spin dipole moment oriented in any arbitrary direction? How is that obvious, has it been experimentally measured?


For accelerating electrons see Thomas precession.

I understand that only applies to bound electrons in atomic orbitals. In which case electron's magnetic spin dipole moment orientation will also be relative to proton's magnetic fields and magnetic fields of other electrons, so it doesn't really answer the question. Still relevant though, so do you know what is electron's spin axis orientation in a hydrogen atom?
 
carrz said:
So are you saying that a single free electron traveling in a straight line with constant velocity, in absence of any external magnetic and electric fields, can have its magnetic spin dipole moment oriented in any arbitrary direction?

Yes this should be entirely obvious. It's no different from saying you can prepare a system of torque-free and force-free gyroscopes in arbitrary directions. If I'm in the inertial rest frame of such a gyroscope then I can rotate it around at whim so as to have it point in any arbitrary direction I choose and the gyroscope will stay oriented that way because it is free.

carrz said:
I understand that only applies to bound electrons in atomic orbitals.

Then you understand incorrectly. Did you even do what I asked and look up Thomas precession? You certainly do not yet know of its generality and where it actually comes from. There's no point in me explaining it when you have a wealth of resources online which can do so in depth.
 
WannabeNewton said:
Yes this should be entirely obvious. It's no different from saying you can prepare a system of torque-free and force-free gyroscopes in arbitrary directions. If I'm in the inertial rest frame of such a gyroscope then I can rotate it around at whim so as to have it point in any arbitrary direction I choose and the gyroscope will stay oriented that way because it is free.

Has it been experimentally measured? Beside spin magnetic moment, there is one more magnetic field electrons have, as described by Biot-Savart law, which has precisely defined orientation relative to velocity vector. Do you have any reason to believe electron's spin magnetic moment does not interact with its Biot-Savart magnetic moment?


Then you understand incorrectly. Did you even do what I asked and look up Thomas precession? You certainly do not yet know of its generality and where it actually comes from. There's no point in me explaining it when you have a wealth of resources online which can do so in depth.

I looked up and the article clearly states it is about spin-orbit relation, and that: - "it only occurs in curvilinear motion and therefore cannot be observed independently of some centripetal force causing the curvilinear motion". And it's only a correction, I'm asking about the actual value it is a correction to. Do you know what is electron's spin axis orientation in a hydrogen atom?
 

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