General Question about Gravitational Potential & General Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of gravitational potential in the context of general relativity (GR) and its analogy to Newtonian gravitation. Participants explore various aspects of gravitational fields, metrics, and effective potentials within different spacetime frameworks, including static spacetimes and black hole orbits.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the existence of a potential quantity in GR similar to that in Newton's theory.
  • Another participant explains that in GR, the gravitational field is represented by the metric field, which can be expressed in terms of a scalar field in static spacetimes, drawing a parallel to Newtonian potential.
  • A different viewpoint introduces the concept of an effective potential for calculating orbits around black holes.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the conditions under which the metric can be expressed in terms of a scalar field, specifically mentioning the need for weak curvature.
  • One participant discusses defining the "force of gravity" in static spacetimes as the proper acceleration of a stationary particle, noting the necessity of a preferred coordinate system and the complications arising from circular orbits.
  • It is mentioned that while a force can be expressed as the gradient of a scalar potential, it does not adhere to Gauss's law, and a different integral approach yields a constant quantity proportional to the enclosed Komar mass.
  • The effective potential related to the Schwarzschild metric is described, highlighting the relationship between the effective potential and the force at infinity.
  • A concluding remark states that while these concepts are useful for static spacetimes, there is no generalization applicable to all scenarios in GR regarding gravitational potential.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views on the existence and definition of gravitational potential in GR, with no consensus reached on the applicability of these concepts across different spacetime scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the conditions necessary for defining gravitational potential and the limitations of generalizing findings from static spacetimes to more general cases in GR.

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Is there a potential quantity in general relativity, analogous to Newton's theory of gravitation? I am not too familiar with GR, so I thought I'd ask.
 
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In GR, the gravitational field is the metric field, which is a tensor field.

In a class of spacetimes called "static", the metric can be written in terms of a scalar field which is analogous to the Newtonian potential.
 
Well there's an effective potential which can be defined in GR for calculating orbits around black holes and the like.
 
atyy said:
In GR, the gravitational field is the metric field, which is a tensor field.

In a class of spacetimes called "static", the metric can be written in terms of a scalar field which is analogous to the Newtonian potential.
Shouldn't curvature also not be weak to do this? So,

[tex] g_{\mu\nu} = \eta_{\mu\nu} + h_{\mu\nu}[/tex]

where the components of h are much smaller than 1?
 
You can define the "force of gravity" in a static space-time as the proper acceleration of a stationary particle. Though you might have to define a preferred coordinate system to define the notion of a static particle. The issue I'd be concerned with is eliminating circular orbits as not being a "stationary particle".

You can also write this force as the gradient of a scalar potential. See Wald pg 158 problem 4. However, it won't follow Gauss's law, the surface integral of the "force" around an enclosing body won't be constant. However, it turns out (see Wald around pg 288)that if you do a Gauss-law like intergal on the "force at infinity" rather than the force, you do get a constant quantity that's proportional to the enclosed Komar mass.

You can also look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komar_mass though Wald is a better source and the inspiration for this calculation.

The force at infinity is just the force mulltiplied by the redshift factor. The redshift factor can be defined as [itex]\sqrt{\xi^a \xi_a}[/itex] where [itex]\xi^a[/itex] is the timelike Killing vector of the static system. Using sensible coordinates, which you probably need to define the notion of a stationary particle anyway, the timelike Killing vector will just be a unit vector [1,0,0,0] and the redshift factor is equal to [itex]\sqrt g_{tt}[/itex], i.e. the square root of the time dilation factor.

For the Schwarzschild metric, the effective potential (in geometric units) whose gradient yields the force is ln(g_tt), the effective potential whose gradient yields the force-at-infinity is sqrt(g_tt).

As handy as all this is for static space-times, you can't generalize it - in general, there's no such thing as gravitational potential in GR.
 
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