Get Help with Infrared Detection Circuit Design

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the design and optimization of an infrared detection circuit intended to drive a motor. Participants explore various components, configurations, and alternatives, including the use of PIR sensors for motion detection. The conversation includes technical challenges, circuit design considerations, and performance expectations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks verification of their infrared detection circuit design and questions the detection range for a person crossing in front of the light, aiming for 10-20 feet.
  • Another participant suggests using a photocurrent-to-voltage converter stage with an opamp to improve the circuit's performance and recommends modulating the IR transmission to reduce interference.
  • It is proposed that Passive IR (PIR) sensing may be a suitable alternative for detecting motion, with a note on the importance of selecting the appropriate device and lens for the desired detection area.
  • A participant mentions that modulating the IR emitters can allow for higher current drive, potentially increasing detection distance.
  • One participant confirms their decision to switch to a PIR sensor and inquires about cheaper alternatives to a specific expensive sensor model.
  • Questions arise regarding the necessity of a transistor (Q1) in the revised circuit design, with concerns about switch ratings and load requirements being discussed.
  • General notes highlight the instability of the PIR output at power-up, which could lead to unexpected motor operation, and the need for bypass capacitance to stabilize the regulator output.
  • Another participant acknowledges the power-up instability and mentions mechanical design adjustments made to address it, while also seeking advice on electronic solutions.
  • Discussions include the necessity of bypass capacitance for both the sensor and regulator, with references to data sheets for appropriate sizing.
  • Concerns are raised about the biasing of a transistor in the circuit, suggesting that it should be connected to ground to avoid variable bias states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and differing opinions regarding circuit design choices, component selection, and performance expectations. The discussion remains unresolved on several technical aspects, including the necessity of certain components and the best practices for circuit stability.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific components and configurations, but there are limitations in the discussion regarding assumptions about component specifications and the exact requirements for the circuit's performance. Some mathematical steps and sizing considerations for capacitors remain unresolved.

Wetmelon
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Hey experts! I've designed an infrared detection circuit to drive a motor, but I need the circuit and my math checked. I tried 5Spice, but I can't get my head around it. Circuit image attached.

Do you know about how far I would be able to detect someone crossing in front of the light? I need 10-20 feet. Even farther would be great!

Edit: I should also mention that the TIP41C transistors are the correct components, but I am only using what Eagle had in its library for the other components, so they are not necessarily to spec.
 

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Wetmelon said:
Hey experts! I've designed an infrared detection circuit to drive a motor, but I need the circuit and my math checked. I tried 5Spice, but I can't get my head around it. Circuit image attached.

Do you know about how far I would be able to detect someone crossing in front of the light? I need 10-20 feet. Even farther would be great!

Edit: I should also mention that the TIP41C transistors are the correct components, but I am only using what Eagle had in its library for the other components, so they are not necessarily to spec.

You're not really adding any gain to the IR Rx diode -- it would be better to use a photocurrent-to-voltage converter stage with an opamp. Also, for best real-world IR TX-->Rx performance, you should modulate the IR transmission and demodulate at the RX stage, to help reject DC IR and AC Mains (60Hz, 120Hz) interference.

You might be able to use Passive IR (PIR) sensing instead, if you are just looking for the motion of people / warm objects.
 
Also, by modulating, you can typically drive the emitters at a higher current which can help increase the distance.

One of the closest real-world examples I could give you for the detection of an object detection 10-20Ft away would be the circuitry associated with the safety beam on a garage door system.

Edit:
I'm with Berkeman - PIR sensors for motion usually have a pretty solid performance. Just make sure you select the appropriate device with the correct lens (distance and detection area).
 
Alright, so I decided that PIR was indeed the option most suitable for my application. I have revised my circuit to be compatible with the http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=255-2647-ND

However, this sensor is expensive! Does anybody know of a similar product that is quite a bit cheaper? xD
 

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Wetmelon said:
Alright, so I decided that PIR was indeed the option most suitable for my application. I have revised my circuit to be compatible with the http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=255-2647-ND

However, this sensor is expensive! Does anybody know of a similar product that is quite a bit cheaper? xD

What is the function of Q1? Doesn't seem like it's needed anymore...
 
berkeman said:
What is the function of Q1? Doesn't seem like it's needed anymore...

I don't want to burn out the switch. In my experience, most switches I've used only handle about .5A, which is just about how much my load draws, so it was iffy.

On the other hand, digikey search brings up small, cheap, effective slide switch that handles 6A @ 120VAC, (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=CKN9891-ND), so I guess I don't really need it.

Edit: Updated diagram.
 

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Some general notes:

1. At power-up, the output of the PIR is typically not stable, so your motor may run unexpectedly at first.

2. I'm pretty sure you will need some bypass capacitance to stabilize the output of the regulator. In addition, a bypass cap for the sensor wouldn't hurt.
 
mdjensen22 said:
Some general notes:

1. At power-up, the output of the PIR is typically not stable, so your motor may run unexpectedly at first.

Yea, I was aware of this, and have corrected for it in the mechanical design rather than the electronic design. However, if there's an easy way to fix that in the electronics, I'd love to hear about it :)

2. I'm pretty sure you will need some bypass capacitance to stabilize the output of the regulator. In addition, a bypass cap for the sensor wouldn't hurt.

Added :) Any idea on the capacitor sizing I'll need?



The sensor only outputs 4.5 volts and .1mV, so I had to switch to a darlington transistor with high (10k) hFe to get appropriate current to power the solenoid (load).
 

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The required bypass capacitance for the sensor is listed on the data sheet (application circuit).

The bypass capacitance for the regulator would be listed on its data sheet as well.

One other thing: the pull-down on the base of the transistor should go to ground. As it is drawn, (attached to the motor), its bias will vary between the motor on/motor off states.
 

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