Getting from non-imaginary to imaginary

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the derivation of capacitor reactance, specifically the transition from a time-dependent expression to a complex representation involving imaginary numbers. Participants explore the mathematical steps and conceptual understanding behind these transformations, including the use of polar coordinates and complex numbers in electrical engineering.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the derivation from the time-dependent reactance expression to the complex form, questioning the implication that \(\frac{\sin(wt)}{\cos(wt)} = -j\).
  • Another participant requests additional background or references, indicating unfamiliarity with the derivation method presented.
  • A participant explains that for a sinusoidal voltage across the capacitor, the current is derived from the voltage, leading to the expression for reactance as \(\frac{V}{I} = X = \frac{\sin(wt)}{wC\cos(wt)}\), while noting that reactance is also defined as \(\frac{1}{jwC}\).
  • One participant argues that defining reactance as a ratio of instantaneous values makes it time-dependent, which contrasts with the conventional definition of reactance as a constant for a given component.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the use of the imaginary unit \(i\) in the expression \(\frac{1}{jwC}\), questioning its derivation.
  • Another participant clarifies that the imaginary unit arises from using complex representation for voltage and current, stating that it simplifies calculations but is not strictly necessary.
  • One participant suggests that Euler's formula could facilitate the transition from the original definition to the complex representation, proposing that dividing the sine and cosine forms would yield a result related to \(1/j\).
  • A later reply challenges this suggestion, indicating that the result appears to be a function of \(x\) rather than a constant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and derivations related to reactance, with no consensus reached on the validity of the time-dependent versus constant definitions or the role of the imaginary unit in the derivation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the transition between time-dependent and complex representations, as well as the assumptions underlying the definitions of reactance. Some participants note the dependence on definitions and the potential for confusion in the mathematical steps involved.

jaydnul
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I was reading the derivation of capacitor reactance and I understand it up to the point where it is converted to polar coordinates. How do you get from
[tex]X=\frac{sin(wt)}{wCcos(wt)}[/tex]
to
[tex]X=\frac{1}{jwC}[/tex]

This implies that
[tex]\frac{sin(wt)}{cos(wt)}=-j[/tex]
And I'm confused how that is derived.

Thanks

Edit: reactance is X not Z
 
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Could you give some more background? Perhaps a reference? I've never seen reactance derived like this.
 
Assuming a sinosoidal voltage across the capacitor, the current will be the derivative of that waveform times C [itex](I=C\frac{dV}{dt})[/itex]. So to find reactance, you divide V by I:

[itex]V=sin(wt)[/itex]
[itex]I=wCcos(wt)[/itex]
[itex]\frac{V}{I}=X=\frac{sin(wt)}{wCcos(wt)}[/itex]

But X is also defined as
[itex]X=\frac{1}{jwC}[/itex]

I found it here
 
If you define the reactance as the ratio of the instantaneous values then is a time dependent quantity. This is not the usual definition of reactantce, which is a constant for a given component. The two definitions are not equivalent.
 
I think the root of my confusion comes down to not knowing why we use i. We couldn't use any letter (A+By) to represent the 2nd dimension because at some point the characteristics of i become significant (squaring it gives -1).

But how is the i derived in 1/jwc
 
It is not "derived". It comes from using complex representation for voltage and current.
You don't need it, it is just easier to do the math this way. If you start with real quantities (U and I) then the reactance will be real as well (just X=1/wC).

In complex representation
[itex]u=U_0 e^{i \omega t}[/itex]
[itex]i=I_0 e^{i( \omega t+\phi)}[/itex]
The relationship between u and i is
[itex]\frac{du}{dt}=\frac{1}{C}i[/itex]
Plugging in and simplifying the [itex]e^{i \omega t}[/itex] you get
[itex]U_0 i \omega =\frac{I_0}{C} e^{i \phi}[/itex]
This holds if [itex]\phi=90^o[/itex] and [itex]U_o=\frac{I_0}{i \omega C}[/itex] or Uo=Io*X

Now try to do the same in sin and cos representation and see what you get.
 
Wait, wouldn't euler's forumula get you there from my original definition anyways?

According to euler:
[itex]cos(x)=.5(e^{jx}+e^{-jx})[/itex]
[itex]sin(x)=.5(e^{j(90-x)}+e^{-j(90-x)})[/itex]

And if you divide these, it comes out to 1/j, right?
 
I don't see how. See yourself if it does.
For me looks like a function of x, not a constant.
 

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