Groups of Order 16 with 4-Torsion, Up to Isomorphism

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on identifying all groups of order 16 that exhibit 4-torsion, exploring both abelian and non-abelian structures. Participants examine various group constructions, including direct products and semidirect products, while considering the implications of group actions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the groups of order 16 with 4-torsion can be identified using the structure theorem for finitely-generated PIDs, listing several abelian groups.
  • Another participant confirms that the listed abelian groups are correct and adds that a non-abelian group of order 8 can also satisfy the conditions.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of abelian groups, with some participants clarifying that only finite abelian groups are relevant to the problem.
  • Participants mention the dihedral group of order 8 and its properties, including its relations and the possibility of forming a direct product with other groups.
  • One participant suggests that any group of order 16 without elements of order 16 or 8 will meet the conditions, proposing additional groups like the quaternion group and various semidirect products.
  • Another participant notes that there are other non-abelian groups of order 16 that can be formed as semidirect products, emphasizing the need to explore group actions to determine their structure.
  • Questions are raised about specific actions of groups on others and whether the resulting semidirect products are isomorphic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the identification of abelian groups of order 16 with 4-torsion, but there is ongoing debate regarding the existence and nature of non-abelian groups, particularly concerning semidirect products and group actions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the uniqueness and isomorphism of certain group constructions.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the completeness of their lists of groups and the conditions under which certain semidirect products exist. There are also unresolved questions about the actions of groups on others and the implications for isomorphism.

WWGD
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Hi, I am trying to find all groups G of order 16 so that for every y in G, we have y+y+y+y=0.

My thought is using the structure theorem for finitely-generated PIDs. So I can find 3:

## \mathbb Z_4 \times \mathbb Z_4##,
## \mathbb Z_4 \times \mathbb Z_2 \times \mathbb Z_2 ## , and:

## \mathbb Z_2 ^4 ## .

How can I tell if these are the only 3 groups with this property up to isomorphism?

Thanks.
 
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You definitely have all of the abelian groups. All abelian groups are direct products of cyclic groups and these must all have order that divides 16.

But a non-abelian group of order 8 direct product ## \mathbb Z_2## will also work.
 
What do you mean all Abelian groups are direct product of cyclic groups? What about ## \mathbb Z ## ?
 
WWGD said:
What do you mean all Abelian groups are direct product of cyclic groups? What about ## \mathbb Z ## ?
Not sure what you are asking here. You only need to consider finite abelian groups.

Look up the structure theorem for abelian groups. Any abstract algebra book should have it.
 
Yes, I missed the obvious fact that ## \mathbb Z ## is cyclic. In my mind I was reading "torsion" , instead of cyclic.
 
WWGD said:
Yes, I missed the obvious fact that ## \mathbb Z ## is cyclic.

Still you only need finite cyclic groups for your problem.

In any case, the dihedral group of order 8, ## \mathbb D_8, ## is non-abelian.

## \mathbb D_8 \times \mathbb Z_2## is completely 4 torsion.

The relations for ## \mathbb D_8## are

## \ b^4 = a^2 ##

and ## \ aba = b^3##
 
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lavinia said:
Still you only need finite cyclic groups for your problem.

In any case, the dihedral group of order 8 is non-abelian.

## \mathbb D_8 \times \mathbb Z_2## is completely 4 torsion.

The relations for ## \mathbb D_8## are

## \mathbb b^4 = a^2 ##

Right, only finite cyclic groups are torsion. Also had forgotten this obvious fact too. Well, since there is only one infinite cyclic group up to isomorphism (right)? .
 
WWGD said:
Right, only finite cyclic groups are torsion. Also had forgotten this obvious fact too. Well, since there is only one infinite cyclic group up to isomorphism (right)? .
yes. Though you replied before I finished writing so my answer is incomplete. I hadn't finished the relations for the dihedral group of order 8. It is complete now.
 
BTW: You might enjoy taking a hands on look at the dihedral group of order 8 in matrix form.

Let b be a rotation of the plane by 90 degrees counter clockwise and let a be reflection around the x-axis. These two symmetries of the plane generate a group. Try multiplying out all of the matrices.

The matrix for b is (1,0) -> (0,1) (0,1) -> (-1,0)
The matrix for a is (1,0) -> (1,0) (0,1) -> (0,-1)

Sorry I don't know how to write matrices properly here.

You can check directly that the fourth power of each matrix is the identity matrix.

Try coming up with other representations of ##\mathbb D_8##
 
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  • #10
Any group of order 16 which does not contain an element of order 16 or 8 will meet the conditions.

In addition to the ones listed so far, there is ##Q \times \mathbb{Z}_2## (direct product of the quaternion group with ##\mathbb{Z}_2##).

There are also (non-direct) semidirect products of the form ##\mathbb{Z}_4 \rtimes \mathbb{Z}_4## and ##(\mathbb{Z}_2 \times \mathbb{Z}_2) \rtimes \mathbb{Z}_4##, but one has to do a bit of work to show that these exist. (And in general, they may not be unique; it's possible for two semidirect products with the same factors ##N \rtimes H## to be non-isomorphic.)
 
  • #11
As jbunniii wrote, there are other possible non-abelian groups of order 16 all of whose elements are 4 torsion.
And some of these may be viewed as semi-direct products of abelian groups.

One can create a semi-direct product of two groups H and A whenever A acts as a group of automorphisms of H.
The multiplication is defined on the set HxA by the rule

(h,a).(j,b) = (h(a.j),ab) where a.j denotes the action of a on the element,j.

This means that if one wants to find semi-direct products, one needs to find actions of A on H by a group of automorphisms.

So for the dihedral group of order 8, the non-zero element of ##\mathbb{Z}_2## acts on a generator of ##\mathbb{Z}_4## by inversion.
Similarly ##\mathbb{Z}_4## can act on ##\mathbb{Z}_4## by inversion. That is; the generator of one ##\mathbb{Z}_4## maps each element of the other to its inverse. This gives a group of order 16 all of whose elements are 4 torsion.

Question:

- What are the actions of

##\mathbb{Z}_4## on ##\mathbb{Z}_4## and on ## \mathbb{Z}_2 \times \mathbb{Z}_2 ## ?

Are the resulting semi-direct products isomorphic?

- Are there any actions of

##\mathbb{Z}_2## on ##\mathbb{Z}_4 \times \mathbb{Z}_2 ## ?
 
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