Hamiltonian of an electron under EM radiation

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Hamiltonian formulation of an electron interacting with electromagnetic (EM) radiation. Participants explore the derivation and implications of the Hamiltonian, particularly focusing on the roles of canonical and kinematic momentum in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the form of the Hamiltonian for an electron in EM radiation, specifically the inclusion of vector potential ##\mathbf{A}## and scalar potential ##\phi##, and seeks references for derivation.
  • Another participant suggests writing down the Lagrangian for a charged particle in an EM field to compute the canonical momentum, indicating that it differs from the usual momentum expression.
  • A different participant notes that in the context of an electron in an EM field, it is the canonical momentum ##p_i## that enters the commutation relation with position ##x_i##, raising questions about the definitions of momentum in this context.
  • A later reply emphasizes the distinction of canonical momentum and its role in Lagrangian and Hamiltonian mechanics, suggesting that canonical momentum is not simply the product of mass and velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and roles of canonical versus kinematic momentum, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the definitions of momentum and the assumptions underlying the use of canonical momentum in quantum mechanics, which are not fully explored in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and researchers in physics, particularly those studying classical mechanics, quantum mechanics, and electromagnetism.

blue_leaf77
Science Advisor
Messages
2,637
Reaction score
786
I might have learned what I am going to ask during my electrodynamics class long time ago but just that do not remember it now.
I always wonder why does an electron moving in space with EM radiation have Hamiltonian of the form
## H = \left( \mathbf{p}-e\mathbf{A}/c \right)^2/2m +e\phi## where ##\mathbf{A}## and ##\phi## are vector and scalar potentials, respectively? I want to study it myself and now I'm having the EM book by Griffith, in case you know that such derivation exists in that book I would prefer that you tell me which chapter it is, otherwise I'm fine if you want to explain it here instead.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Write down the Lagrangian of the charged particle in an EM field and compute the canonical momentum. It differs from the usual momentum expression.
Then construct the Hamiltonian.
 
Ok I guess I need to go to classical mechanics.
After some reading, I found that in the case of electron in an EM field it seems it's the canonical momentum ##p_i## that enters in the usual commutation relation with ##x_i##, not the kinematic momentum. Why is this so? The commutation relation between p and x originally follows from the definition of momentum as the translation operator. But in the derivation process, at least in the book I read, the author didn't made any reference as to whether canonical or kinematic momentum that defines the translation operator. The fact that in the case of electron's Hamiltonian in an EM field it's the canonical momentum that enters in the commutation relation with x, do we define it simply by an analogy with the classical Poisson bracket? I was just guessing though that the ##p_i## in classical Poisson bracket is the canonical one, I haven't checked myself.
 
Last edited:
Any idea?
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K