Help Needed: Understanding Hungerford's Algebra Book Proofs

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding specific proofs related to free groups as presented in Hungerford's Algebra book, particularly theorem 9.1 from the 2003 edition. Participants seek clarification on the application of the "Van Der Waerden trick" and the implications of bijections in group theory, with a focus on injectivity and associativity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests clarification on how the conclusion of injectivity for the map ##\varphi## is reached in the proof, specifically regarding the mapping of reduced words to bijections.
  • Another participant explains that if ##\varphi## is not injective, it would map a non-identity word to the identity map, contradicting the properties of the mapping.
  • Discussion includes the assertion that since ##\varphi## is a bijection between a group and a set, the group properties can be transferred to the set, provided the operation is respected.
  • One participant elaborates on the need to formally prove that the operation defined on the set is well-defined and associative, referencing the bijection's properties.
  • Clarifications are sought regarding the operation's respect and the implications of associativity in the context of the bijection.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the proof's details, particularly the injectivity and the transfer of group properties to the set. There is no consensus on the first question, as some participants lack access to the book and specific definitions, while others provide insights based on their interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of access to Hungerford's book for some participants, which affects their ability to engage fully with the proof's details. The discussion also highlights the dependence on definitions and the need for formal proofs regarding the properties of the operations involved.

mr.tea
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I am trying to learn about free groups(as part of my Bachelor's thesis), and was assigned with Hungerford's Algebra book. Unfortunately, the book uses some aspects from category theory(which I have not learned). If someone has an access to the book and can help me, I would be grateful.

First, in theorem 9.1(2003 edition), he proves that the set of all reduced words, ##F(X)##, of a given set X is a group(under the operation defined), using "Van Der Waerden trick". At some point in the proof he says:" since ## 1 \mapsto x_{1}^{\delta_{1}} \cdots x_{n}^{\delta_{n}} ## under the map ##|x_{1}^{\delta_{1}}|\cdots |x_{n}^{\delta_{n}}| ##, then it follows that ##\varphi## is injective". Can you please explain to me how did he get this conclusion?

Second, in the same proof, he found that this ##\varphi## is a bijection between a set and a group, and therefore concludes that since the group is associative then also the set is. Why is that?

Thank you.
 
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mr.tea said:
I am trying to learn about free groups(as part of my Bachelor's thesis), and was assigned with Hungerford's Algebra book. Unfortunately, the book uses some aspects from category theory(which I have not learned). If someone has an access to the book and can help me, I would be grateful.

First, in theorem 9.1(2003 edition), he proves that the set of all reduced words, ##F(X)##, of a given set X is a group(under the operation defined), using "Van Der Waerden trick". At some point in the proof he says:" since ## 1 \mapsto x_{1}^{\delta_{1}} \cdots x_{n}^{\delta_{n}} ## under the map ##|x_{1}^{\delta_{1}}|\cdots |x_{n}^{\delta_{n}}| ##, then it follows that ##\varphi## is injective". Can you please explain to me how did he get this conclusion?

Second, in the same proof, he found that this ##\varphi## is a bijection between a set and a group, and therefore concludes that since the group is associative then also the set is. Why is that?

Thank you.
I cannot answer your first question, because I don't have the book and thus don't know, what exactly your ingredients are: Bartel's trick, the definition of ##|.|## or ##\varphi## and what had happened in the proof until this point. So I'll fold here.

The second question is easier to answer. Let's say we have a bijection ##\varphi : (G,\cdot) \longrightarrow X## from a group into and onto a set. Then we simply can define ##x_1 \circ x_2 := \varphi (\varphi^{-1}(x_1) \cdot \varphi^{-1}(x_2))## as a binary operation on ##X## and the group properties are ##1:1## transported from ##G## to ##(X,\circ )##.

Of course you'll still have to formally prove, that this definition provides associativity. First check whether it is well-defined, then that ##\varphi (g) \circ \varphi (h) = \varphi (g\cdot h)## and next ##(x \circ y) \circ z = x \circ (y \circ z)##.
 
Last edited:
mr.tea said:
First, in theorem 9.1(2003 edition), he proves that the set of all reduced words, ##F(X)##, of a given set X is a group(under the operation defined), using "Van Der Waerden trick". At some point in the proof he says:" since ## 1 \mapsto x_{1}^{\delta_{1}} \cdots x_{n}^{\delta_{n}} ## under the map ##|x_{1}^{\delta_{1}}|\cdots |x_{n}^{\delta_{n}}| ##, then it follows that ##\varphi## is injective". Can you please explain to me how did he get this conclusion?
The map ##\varphi## is from the set ##F## of all reduced words to a subgroup of the group of all bijections of ##F##. It maps the word ##x_{1}^{\delta_{1}} \cdots x_{n}^{\delta_{n}}## to the bijection of ##F## denoted by ##|x_{1}^{\delta_{1}}|\cdots |x_{n}^{\delta_{n}}| ##. If ##\varphi## is not injective, then it would take a word ##x_{1}^{\delta_{1}} \cdots x_{n}^{\delta_{n}}\not = 1## to the identity map of ##F##. But the image is the map ##|x_{1}^{\delta_{1}}|\cdots |x_{n}^{\delta_{n}}| ##, which takes the element ##1## of ##F## to the element ##x_{1}^{\delta_{1}} \cdots x_{n}^{\delta_{n}}##, and therefore is not the identity map of ##F##, so ##\varphi## is injective.
 
mr.tea said:
Second, in the same proof, he found that this ##\varphi## is a bijection between a set and a group, and therefore concludes that since the group is associative then also the set is. Why is that?
It is a bit more than that. The set also has an operation and the map is not just a bijection, but also respects the operation i.e. ##\varphi(ab)=\varphi(a)\varphi(b)##. So you have

##\varphi(a(bc))=\varphi(a)\varphi(bc)=\varphi(a)(\varphi(b)\varphi(c))=(\varphi(a)\varphi(b))\varphi(c)=\varphi(ab)\varphi(c)=\varphi((ab)c)##

In the middle it is used that the you have associativity in the image, hence ##\varphi(a(bc))=\varphi((ab)c)##. And since ##\varphi## is a bijection you have ##a(bc)=(ab)c##.
 
fresh_42 said:
I cannot answer your first question, because I don't have the book and thus don't know, what exactly your ingredients are: Bartel's trick, the definition of ##|.|## or ##\varphi## and what had happened in the proof until this point. So I'll fold here.

The second question is easier to answer. Let's say we have a bijection ##\varphi : (G,\cdot) \longrightarrow X## from a group into and onto a set. Then we simply can define ##x_1 \circ x_2 := \varphi (\varphi^{-1}(x_1) \cdot \varphi^{-1}(x_2))## as a binary operation on ##X## and the group properties are ##1:1## transported from ##G## to ##(X,\circ )##.

Of course you'll still have to formally prove, that this definition provides associativity. First check whether it is well-defined, then that ##\varphi (g) \circ \varphi (h) = \varphi (g\cdot h)## and next ##(x \circ y) \circ z = x \circ (y \circ z)##.

Thank you for your answer!

martinbn said:
If ##\varphi## is not injective, then it would take a word ##x_{1}^{\delta_{1}} \cdots x_{n}^{\delta_{n}}\not = 1## to the identity map of ##F##. But the image is the map ##|x_{1}^{\delta_{1}}|\cdots |x_{n}^{\delta_{n}}| ##, which takes the element ##1## of ##F## to the element ##x_{1}^{\delta_{1}} \cdots x_{n}^{\delta_{n}}##, and therefore is not the identity map of ##F##, so ##\varphi## is injective.

I am sorry. Can you explain a bit more about this part?

martinbn said:
It is a bit more than that. The set also has an operation and the map is not just a bijection, but also respects the operation i.e. ##\varphi(ab)=\varphi(a)\varphi(b)##. So you have

##\varphi(a(bc))=\varphi(a)\varphi(bc)=\varphi(a)(\varphi(b)\varphi(c))=(\varphi(a)\varphi(b))\varphi(c)=\varphi(ab)\varphi(c)=\varphi((ab)c)##

In the middle it is used that the you have associativity in the image, hence ##\varphi(a(bc))=\varphi((ab)c)##. And since ##\varphi## is a bijection you have ##a(bc)=(ab)c##.

Thank you very much, now it's understandable.

Thank you.
 

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