Help with Electromagnet Project Design

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design and calculations for an electromagnet project, specifically focusing on the number of turns required for a solenoid with an iron core, the choice of core materials, and the feasibility of achieving a specified pull force within given dimensions and electrical parameters. The scope includes theoretical calculations, practical design considerations, and safety implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks guidance on calculating the number of turns needed for a solenoid with an iron core and expresses uncertainty about core material choices, mentioning ferrite and iron powder cores.
  • Another participant provides a link to a resource discussing magnetic field calculations with an iron core and questions the feasibility of achieving a pull force of 25,000 to 60,000 N, suggesting that the dimensions may pose a challenge.
  • A participant proposes the idea of using multiple smaller electromagnets instead of a single large one, inquiring whether the forces would add up effectively.
  • Another participant agrees that the forces would add but notes that efficiency may decrease due to separation between coils, recommending a single coil design with as many turns as necessary.
  • One participant suggests a practical approach of building the electromagnet, measuring its strength with varying numbers of turns, and using algebra to estimate the required turns, while also mentioning the concept of core saturation and its potential nonlinearity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying opinions on the feasibility of the project, with some questioning the pull force target and dimensions, while others suggest alternative designs. There is no consensus on the best approach or the practicality of achieving the desired specifications.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge potential limitations related to core saturation and efficiency when using multiple coils, but these aspects remain unresolved in the discussion.

rocketnukem
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I was referd to this forum from a friend and I have been reading some of them and I think you guys can help me and I would be very happy if you could.

I was taking a electormagnitism physics class in school, calc based, and I had this idea for a project. I know that to calculate the magnetic field that is F=I*L*B*sin(thata) and the magnetic field of a solenoid is B=(u*n*I)/(2R) and n=turns/length. The question I have is how do I calculate the number of turns a solenoid needs when it has an iron core and what core to choose? I have been reading outside of class about fearite and iron powder cores and it seems they have a class for each but I don't understand them. I havn't even decided if I should use a tipical solenoid or a toroid either.

I am trying to find out if I can make a electromagnet that is roughly 5" high, 11" wide, and
12" long(this may have to be shorter), that runs on 20 amps, 12-24V DC, and has a 25,000-60,000N pull force on it (would really like to hit that max but not being picky). I realize I have taken only one physics class about magnetics and this sound rediculus so if it can't be done it wont't hurt my fealings none. Thanks for any input.
 
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Here's a link talking about how to calculate the magnetic field with an iron core,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr..._.E2.80.93_the_constant_B_field_approximation

From that, it talks some about calculating the force on another magnet.

I think 25000 - 60000 N is really high, but with enough turns I'm sure it can be done lol
I don't know if you could manage to fit those dimensions though.

That would be pretty dangerous to use, what do you need it for?
 


Would multiple smaller electromagnets in a case that size work better? Would the force of each magent add up or does it not work that way?
 


I think they add, just as adding turns to one coil adds B field. But it will be less efficient because there will be some separation between the coils.

I think the best way would just be a single coil with as many turns as necessary.

I suggest building it, measuring the strength with some number of turns, and measuring again with x many more turns. Then you could do some algebra to figure out approximately how many turns you need.

That article says something about saturation of the core and becoming nonlinear, but I wouldn't worry about that for now.
 

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