High density, Less-Volatile, High Heat capacity Fluid

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the search for a liquid with specific properties suitable for very low temperatures (around 100-150 K), including high density, high temperature of vaporization, low volatility, and high specific heat capacity. Participants explore potential applications and theoretical considerations related to thermal absorption and cryogenic cooling.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a liquid with high density, high vaporization temperature, low volatility, and high specific heat capacity for low-temperature applications.
  • Another participant questions the vague terms used and suggests that clarifying the intended application could lead to better suggestions.
  • A list of potential liquids with corresponding properties is provided, including hydrogen, fluorine, and various hydrocarbons, but no specific recommendations are made regarding their suitability for the stated requirements.
  • A participant discusses the concept of a black body and proposes a system design involving a fluid within layers of thermal conductors and insulators to maximize thermal absorption.
  • Concerns are raised about the practicality of using high boiling liquids near their freezing point and the implications of evaporation on thermal management.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for the fluid to have a high specific heat capacity to resist temperature increases and minimize evaporation.
  • Questions are posed regarding the necessity and purpose of the proposed thermal absorption system.
  • Discussion includes considerations about the design of the liquid-filled container and the effects of surface polishing on energy absorption and reflection.
  • One participant suggests that allowing the liquid to evaporate could stabilize temperature and simplify measurements, questioning the need for a high thermal capacity fluid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the properties and applications of the desired fluid, with no consensus reached on a specific solution or approach. The necessity and purpose of the thermal absorption system also remain contested.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the definitions of terms like "high" and "very," and the discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the feasibility of the proposed fluid properties and system design.

rohit1994
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hey :smile:
I am a college student and am looking for a liquid having the following properties at very low temperatures (probably around 100-150 K) -
1) Very high density
2) Very high temperature of vaporization
3) Less- Volatile
4) High specific heat capacity
 
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Your terms “very”, “very”, “less” and “high” are all a bit open to interpretation.
Maybe if you told us the application you wanted it for we could make some suggestions of liquids that not only meet your requirements, but are safe, low cost and available.
 
Here is a quick list of possibilities, derived from CRC handbook.
Code:
T melt °C   enthalpy kJ per mole 
-259.34       0.12          H2            Hydrogen
-219.66       0.51          F2            Fluorine
-218.79       0.44          O2            Oxygen
-210.0        0.71          N2            Nitrogen
-205.02       0.833         CO            Carbon monoxide
-187.63       3.50          C3H8          Propane
-185.34       3.96          C4H8          1-Butene
-185.24       3.003         C3H6          Propene
-183.60       0.704         CF4           Tetrafluoromethane
-182.79       2.72          C2H6          Ethane
-182.47       0.94          CH4           Methane
-177.6        2.8           C4H8          Methylcyclopropane
-169.15       3.35          C2H4          Ethylene
-168.43       5.36          C5H10         3-Methyl-1-butene
-165.12       5.94          C5H10         1-Pentene
-163.6        2.30          NO            Nitric oxide
-162.90       5.30          C6H14         3-Methylpentane
-159.77       5.15          C5H12         Isopentane
-159.4        4.54          C4H10         Isobutane
-158.2        5.55          C2ClF3        Chlorotrifluoroethene
-157.42       4.12          CHClF2        Chlorodifluoromethane
-155.2        4.06          CHF3          Trifluoromethane
-153.84       4.92          C2H3Cl        Chloroethene
-153.6        6.27          C6H14         2-Methylpentane
-151.36       7.11          C5H10         cis-2-Pentene
-148.2        6.12          C5H8          1,4-Pentadiene
-147.88       4.98          C2H6S         Ethanethiol
-147.70       0.477         C3F8          Perfluoropropane
-145.9        4.93          C5H8          2-Methyl-1,3-butadiene
-142.42       6.93          C6H12         Methylcyclopentane
-141.5        4.94          C2H6O         Dimethyl ether
-141.11       8.88          C6H12         cis-2-Hexene
-140.8        5.64          C5H8          cis-1,3-Pentadiene
-140.7        5.92          C4H8          Isobutene
-140.21       8.35          C5H10         trans-2-Pentene
-139.76       9.35          C6H12         1-Hexene
-139.54       5.12          C2H3Br        Bromoethene
-138.88       7.31          C4H8          cis-2-Butene
-138.8        4.73          COS           Carbon oxysulfide
-138.4        4.45          C2H5Cl        Chloroethane
-138.3        4.66          C4H10         Butane
-137.53       7.91          C5H10         2-Methyl-1-butene
-136.6        4.40          C3H4          Allene
-136.2        6.96          C4H6          1,2-Butadiene
-135.0        3.36          C5H8          Cyclopentene
-134.4        6.85          C7H16         3,3-Dimethylpentane
-133.72       7.60          C5H10         2-Methyl-2-butene
-131.15       7.72          C2F4          Tetrafluoroethene
-130.5        5.74          C3H8S         2-Propanethiol
-129.67       8.40          C5H12         Pentane
-129.1        7.66          C4F10         Perfluorobutane
-128.10       0.79          C6H14         2,3-Dimethylbutane
-127.78       5.74          CCl2O         Carbonyl chloride
-127.58       5.44          C3H6          Cyclopropane
-126.8        4.20          BF3           Boron trifluoride
-126.6        6.75          C7H14         Methylcyclohexane
-125.7        6.03          C4H6          1-Butyne
-125.45       8.38          C3F6O         Perfluoroacetone
 
Well, i read about the concept of a black body...
So, i was trying to develop a system which would absorb all the radiations falling on it.

As a perfectly black body is nearly impossible.
So, what i am planning to do is to have a fluid withing a multiple layers of thermal conductors and insulators having highly polished surface from inside.
The fluid is suppose to be at a very low temperature somewhere around 100 k or so, so that it attracts all the heat. And all the other properties that i listed in my original post are going to facilitate in the absorption of thermal radiations.

I have attached a simple layout of the desired system...
kindly help me out with it...
 

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Most of time, cryogenic cooling is done by low boiling liquids - they are allowed to evaporate but since they are cheap and safe, it is not a problem, it is a feature because latent heat stops them from warming.

High boiling liquids exist, like propane. But how do you want to keep them near their freezing point rather than allow them to warm to their boiling point?
 
Well, that's where the trick lies.
i want the fluid to have high specific heat capacity so that it requires a large amount of energy to increase its temperature.
And the boiling point should also be high as if it starts evaporating then radiation heat transfer would become dominating which i don't want.
i know i am asking for a nearly ideal fluid, but there should atleast be something like this.
 
There are many ways of absorbing energy.
But why do you need / want to do it ?
 
Baluncore said:
There are many ways of absorbing energy.
But why do you need / want to do it ?


Well, i actually want a system which could absorb all the radiations almost immediately ...
say, in less than a few seconds...
and if you have a better idea then kindly let me know :)
 
Your diagram of a liquid filled container shows multiple internal reflections. If the internal surface was not polished it would absorb energy sooner and so reduce reflected energy passing back out through the window.

It does not matter which way the shiny or the matt side of an insulating sheet faces, it insulates either way. It is still better to polish both sides.

If you want the liquid to absorb all energy then presumably you will monitor it's rising temperature. At some temperature it will evaporate. Thermal radiation from the liquid will increase as the temperature of the liquid increases.

If you want to absorb all radiation passing through the window then you may as well let it evaporate the liquid and vent the gas elsewhere, the temperature will then remain constant without need for high thermal capacity. That will stabilise the rate of radiative heat loss and make for simpler flux measurements.

A perfect thermal sink is a broadband transmission line or a pipe, not a cul de sac, reflector or lake.

Baluncore said:
But why do you need / want to do it ?
I asked not what you want, but why you want it.
 

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