History of Black Holes: Formation and Timing After the Big Bang

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the formation and timing of black holes after the Big Bang, exploring when the first black holes could have formed and the conditions necessary for their creation. It touches on theoretical aspects of early universe physics, the nature of primordial black holes, and the characteristics of matter in the early universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the first stars, known as "population III" stars, formed about a million years after the Big Bang and likely collapsed into black holes within a few million years.
  • There is a hypothesis that micro-black holes may have formed in the first seconds of the universe, although they would have quickly disappeared.
  • Questions are raised about why black holes formed in the early universe would be micro in mass, with inquiries into the physics that limits their mass during that time.
  • One participant notes that the early universe was composed primarily of fundamental particles, which may have influenced the formation of micro-black holes due to high energy densities from particle collisions.
  • Another participant questions the smoothness of the early universe and its implications for black hole formation, seeking to understand the physics behind this phenomenon.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints on the nature and timing of black hole formation, with no consensus reached regarding the specifics of early black holes or the conditions that influenced their mass.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights uncertainties regarding the conditions of the early universe, the definitions of micro and macro black holes, and the unresolved physics behind the smoothness of the early universe.

PhilKravitz
When were the first black holes formed? How long after the big bang until black holes could form?
 
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That's an excellent question, and one that's being actively studied. Thus there isn't an exact, known answer.

It is generally believed that the first stars ("population III" stars) formed about a million years after the big bang, these stars would have been much much larger than stars now, and most likely would have collapsed directly to early black-holes within a few million years after their formation (such large stars don't survive very long).
It is possible that these early, high-mass, black-holes grew gradually and became what are now the super-massive black holes at the center of galaxies.

It is also possible that in the first seconds of the universe, micro-black-holes were formed, but they would have disappeared soon afterwords.
 
zhermes said:
It is also possible that in the first seconds of the universe, micro-black-holes were formed, but they would have disappeared soon afterwords.

Why would black holes formed in the first few seconds be micro in mass? Would any be macro in mass? What is the physics that makes early black holes only micro?
 
PhilKravitz said:
Why would black holes formed in the first few seconds be micro in mass? Would any be macro in mass? What is the physics that makes early black holes only micro?
Remember that you start out with only fundamental particles, then protons, neutrons and electrons... and basics you're left with only those for a hundred million years (until the first stars are formed). Still, in the first small fractions of seconds, the energy of these particles were large enough that they could collide with each other---creating energy densities high enough to form a micro-black hole (with total mass roughly on the order of a proton or so).
 
Is it the amount of inhomogeneity that matters or the size of common particles? Even today the basic particle is a hydrogen atom with size 2E-10 meters. At 1E-6 seconds after the big bang neutrons and protons formed with size 1E-15 meters.

Why was the early universe so smooth that black holes could not form? I am not doubting that it was only wonder what was the physics behind it being so.
 

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