How 3=2 is true?,help me to find out the mistakes

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical identity involving the expression \( m^2 + m^2 + m^2 + \ldots \) up to \( m \) terms, equating it to \( m^3 \). Participants are exploring the implications of differentiating both sides of this identity with respect to \( m \) and the resulting contradictions that arise.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are examining the differentiation process of the identity and questioning the validity of treating the number of terms as a variable. There are discussions about whether the order of operations affects the outcome and concerns about the implications of differentiating a sum with respect to a variable that is also part of the summation.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the limitations of differentiating sums, particularly when the number of terms is not continuous. There is ongoing exploration of the assumptions made in the differentiation process, and while some guidance has been offered, no consensus has been reached on the correct approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the left-hand side of the equation is only defined for integer values of \( m \), raising questions about the appropriateness of taking derivatives in this context. There is also a mention of the confusion surrounding the interpretation of terms in the summation as either constants or functions of \( m \).

Nero26
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m^2+m^2+m^2+...up to m term =m^2*m=m^3
Which is identity .So we use derivative for this identity.
Now, d/dm(m^2+m^2+m^2+...up to m term)=d/dm(m^3)
Or 2m+2m+2m+...up to m term=3m^2
Or 2m*m=3m^2
Or 2m^2=3m^2 but it is not possible.So there should be some mistakes.But I'm not getting it.
What I suspect are as follows:
In L.H.S we differentiated first,then add all terms.In R.S we added all then differentiated it.Is the mistake for maintaining different orders of operation?
I suspect another reason like while differentiating R.S, number of terms is considered as variable and multiplied with m^2 that leads to m^3,but as it is no. of terms if I assume it as constant then, m*d/dm(m^2)=m*2m=2m^2,which matches with L.S. Is this okay?or something else?
Thanks for your help.
 
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Here is my thought:
you have m-terms of m^2. That is, m*m^2. Taking derivative, d\dm (m*m^2)=m^2+m*2m=3m^2.
The problem with d/dm(m^2+m^2+m^2+...up to m term) is that m-term is also a function of m. So, technically, you need to differentiate the function (m-term)
 
Nero26 said:
m^2+m^2+m^2+...up to m term =m^2*m=m^3
Which is identity .So we use derivative for this identity.
Now, d/dm(m^2+m^2+m^2+...up to m term)=d/dm(m^3)
Or 2m+2m+2m+...up to m term=3m^2
Or 2m*m=3m^2
Or 2m^2=3m^2 but it is not possible.So there should be some mistakes.But I'm not getting it.
What I suspect are as follows:
In L.H.S we differentiated first,then add all terms.In R.S we added all then differentiated it.Is the mistake for maintaining different orders of operation?
I suspect another reason like while differentiating R.S, number of terms is considered as variable and multiplied with m^2 that leads to m^3,but as it is no. of terms if I assume it as constant then, m*d/dm(m^2)=m*2m=2m^2,which matches with L.S. Is this okay?or something else?
Thanks for your help.

You are not allowed to take a derivative of a sum like ##S(m) = \sum_{i=1}^m a_i## with respect to m. Think about it: if S(m) had a derivative, it would be
S&#039;(m) = \lim_{h \to 0} \frac{\sum_{i=1}^{m+h} a_i - \sum_{i=1}^m a_i}{h}<br /> = \lim_{h \to 0} \frac{\sum_{i=m}^{m+h} a_i}{h}. If you take, for example, h = 0.001, what on Earth could you possibly mean by ##\sum_{i=m}^{m + 0.001} a_i?## It makes no sense.
 
Thanks to all for your help.
Ray Vickson said:
You are not allowed to take a derivative of a sum like ##S(m) = \sum_{i=1}^m a_i## with respect to m. Think about it: if S(m) had a derivative, it would be
S&#039;(m) = \lim_{h \to 0} \frac{\sum_{i=1}^{m+h} a_i - \sum_{i=1}^m a_i}{h}<br /> = \lim_{h \to 0} \frac{\sum_{i=m}^{m+h} a_i}{h}. If you take, for example, h = 0.001, what on Earth could you possibly mean by ##\sum_{i=m}^{m + 0.001} a_i?## It makes no sense.
I couldn't understand this line,
##\sum_{i=1}^{m+h} a_i - \sum_{i=1}^m a_i=\sum_{i=m}^{m+h} a_i##
##\sum_{i=m}^{m+h} a_i=a_m+a_{m+1}+a_{m+2}+...+a_{m+h}## (assuming h is some integer)But terms upto ##a_m## should be canceled by ##\sum_{i=1}^{i=m}a_i## then what remains is ##a_{m+1}+a_{m+2}+...+a_{m+h}## which is ##\sum_{i=m+1}^{i=m+h}a_i## .Now in this case as h→0, after subtraction we'll get a term ##a_{m+h}## that fails to exist.
Another thing I couldn't understand is:
S(m)=\sum^{i=1}_{i=m}a_i,Whether a is constant or function of m?
However ,it seems I got your point that as number of terms can't be a fraction so we can't get derivative,like ##a_{m+0.001}## can't exist.Am I right?
 
Whew! Glad to see that's settled, because it is well known that 3 = 2 only for a large value of 2. :smile:
 
R: How 3=2 is true?,help me to find out the mistakes

Your left hand term is only defined for integer values of m, so d/dm makes no sense.
 
LCKurtz said:
Whew! Glad to see that's settled, because it is well known that 3 = 2 only for a large value of 2. :smile:
Yes, order has been restored. We can all sleep easy tonight! :wink:
 
LCKurtz said:
Whew! Glad to see that's settled, because it is well known that 3 = 2 only for a large value of 2. :smile:
Or a very small value of 3...
 

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