How can I find a solution valid for all cases?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter weetabixharry
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a matrix \textbf{B} that satisfies the equation tr\left\{\textbf{AB}\right\} = \sigma for all square matrices \textbf{A} under the constraint tr\left\{\textbf{A}\right\} = 1. Participants explore various approaches to determine the conditions under which this holds true.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if the equation holds for all matrices, it must also hold for matrices with specific entries, such as A_{i,j} with a single entry of 1.
  • Another participant proposes that only diagonal matrices A_{i,i} should be considered to satisfy the trace constraint, indicating a potential simplification in the approach.
  • A detailed exploration of the trace of the product \textbf{AB} is presented, leading to the conclusion that \textbf{B} must be diagonal for the equation to hold.
  • It is suggested that the only way for \textbf{B} to satisfy the equation in general is if \textbf{B} equals \sigma \textbf{I}, where \textbf{I} is the identity matrix.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the diagonal argument and suggests a simpler approach by making specific choices for \textbf{A} to constrain \textbf{B} further.
  • Another participant agrees with the idea of using specific examples for \textbf{A} to simplify the problem and indicates they will explore this further.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of diagonal matrices and the approach to constraining \textbf{B}. While some suggest that \textbf{B} must be diagonal, others propose that exploring specific cases of \textbf{A} could yield additional insights. No consensus is reached on the general form of \textbf{B} beyond the identity matrix case.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion is limited by the assumptions made about the structure of \textbf{A} and \textbf{B}, as well as the specific cases chosen for exploration. The implications of these choices on the generality of the conclusions drawn remain unresolved.

weetabixharry
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
How can I find a solution valid for "all" cases?

I have an equation:

[itex]tr\left\{\textbf{AB}\right\} = \sigma[/itex]

where [itex]tr\left\{\right\}[/itex] denotes the matrix trace. The square matrix [itex]\textbf{A}[/itex] is independent of both the square matrix [itex]\textbf{B}[/itex] and the real scalar [itex]\sigma[/itex].

I want to determine all possible values of [itex]\textbf{B}[/itex] that will allow the above equation to hold for all [itex]\textbf{A}[/itex], given the only constraint:

[itex]tr\left\{\textbf{A}\right\} = 1[/itex]

For example, I can see that [itex]\textbf{B}=\sigma \textbf{I}[/itex] will always be valid (where [itex]\textbf{I}[/itex] is the identity matrix). But can I guarantee that there are no other possible values for [itex]\textbf{B}[/itex]?

I have been pondering this problem for some time and cannot see a way of approaching it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
Physics news on Phys.org


Let [itex]A_{i,j}[/itex] denote a matrix whose [itex](i,j)[/itex] entry is 1 and the rest of whose entries are zero. If the equation was true for all matrices it would work for each [itex]A_{i,j}[/itex]. Is that going to be possible?
 


Stephen Tashi said:
Let [itex]A_{i,j}[/itex] denote a matrix whose [itex](i,j)[/itex] entry is 1 and the rest of whose entries are zero. If the equation was true for all matrices it would work for each [itex]A_{i,j}[/itex]. Is that going to be possible?

I think we can only consider the [itex]A_{i,i}[/itex] matrices (i.e. a diagonal entry is 1), in order to satisfy the trace constraint on [itex]A[/itex]. However, I'll look into an approach like this. I have found a possible solution in a similar way - by considering the (i,j)th element. I'll check it over and post it here if I think it has any chance of being correct...
 


I hope someone will have the time to read through the following attempt and point out any errors in my reasoning:

The [itex]\left( i,i\right) ^{th}[/itex] element of [itex]\boldsymbol{AB}[/itex] can be written as:

[itex] \left[ \boldsymbol{AB}\right] _{i,i}=\sum_{j=1}^{N}a_{ij}b_{ji}<br /> [/itex]

Therefore the trace is:

[itex] {tr}\left\{ \boldsymbol{AB}\right\}<br /> =\sum_{i=1}^{N}\sum_{j=1}^{N}a_{ij}b_{ji}=\sigma [/itex]

Our only constraint is:

[itex] <br /> {tr}\left\{ \boldsymbol{A}\right\} =\sum_{i=1}^{N}a_{ii}=1<br /> [/itex]

Therefore, we can write:

[itex] <br /> \begin{eqnarray*}<br /> {tr}\left\{ \boldsymbol{AB}\right\} &=&\sigma {tr}\left\{ <br /> \boldsymbol{A}\right\} \\<br /> \sum_{i=1}^{N}\sum_{j=1}^{N}a_{ij}b_{ji} &=&\sigma \sum_{i=1}^{N}a_{ii}<br /> \end{eqnarray*}[/itex]

Clearly, the right hand side is only a function of diagonal terms.
Therefore, the [itex]a_{ij}[/itex] ([itex]i\neq j[/itex]) terms must be eliminated from the left
hand side by assuming all [itex]b_{ji}[/itex] ([itex]j\neq i[/itex]) terms are zero.

Therefore [itex]\boldsymbol{B}[/itex] must be diagonal and:

[itex] <br /> \sum_{i=1}^{N}a_{ii}b_{ii}=\sigma \sum_{i=1}^{N}a_{ii}<br /> [/itex]

The only way (I think) [itex]\boldsymbol{B}[/itex] can satisfy this in general is if
the [itex]b_{ii}[/itex] terms can be removed from the summation (i.e. they are a
constant). Clearly, that constant is [itex]\sigma[/itex]:

[itex] \boldsymbol{B}=\sigma \boldsymbol{I}[/itex]
 


I didn't quite follow your argument about diagonal terms, but I think you have at least started on the right track. I also think you're making it a bit more complicated than it needs to be. I would begin like this: Let A be an arbitrary matrix such that Tr A=1. Let B be an arbitrary matrix such that Tr(AB)=σ. Then Tr(AB)=σTr(A).

Now start making specific choices of A, to see how they constrain B. For example, what does the equality Tr(AB)=σTr(A) say when A11=1 and all other components of A are =0?
 


Thanks for the advice. I think this idea of choosing various specific examples for [itex]\textbf{A}[/itex] is a very good one and could simplify matters significantly. I'll see what I can come up with...
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K