How can the end of a rod accelerate faster than g?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of a uniform rod that accelerates when one of its supports is removed. Participants explore the forces acting on the rod and its atoms, questioning how the end of the rod can accelerate faster than gravitational acceleration (g). The scope includes theoretical reasoning and technical explanations related to forces and motion in a physical system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims that the atom at the end of the rod accelerates at 1.5g due to the forces acting on it, including its weight and interatomic forces.
  • Another participant questions the assumption that interatomic forces act horizontally, prompting a discussion on the nature of these forces.
  • A suggestion is made to consider a small piece of the rod above the right support to analyze the forces acting on it.
  • It is proposed that the rod can be conceptualized as made of "super-atoms," which are arranged horizontally, leading to assumptions about the direction of forces.
  • One participant argues that just because the atoms are arranged horizontally does not mean the forces between them are horizontal, challenging the previous assumptions.
  • A calculation is presented regarding the forces acting on a column of atoms in the rod, leading to a discussion about the net force and acceleration, but it is noted that this does not necessarily yield 1.5g.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the exercise was meant to illustrate the interaction of forces between sections of the rod rather than to solve for acceleration.
  • It is asserted that the end of the rod falls faster than g due to the presence of downward shear forces in addition to gravitational forces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of forces acting on the rod and the implications for its acceleration. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation of these forces or the resulting acceleration of the rod's end.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of forces in a rod, including the distinction between tension and shear stress, which may affect the analysis of the situation. The discussion remains open-ended with various assumptions and interpretations presented.

Happiness
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A uniform rod rests on supports at its ends. The right support is quickly removed.
Screen Shot 2016-12-13 at 4.57.45 AM.png

The atom on the right end will accelerate faster than ##g## at ##1.5g##. How is this possible forces-wise? The only forces acting on the atom is its own weight and the interatomic forces of attraction, which acts horizontally (left) at the instant the right support is removed. So the net force on the atom doesn't seem to be able to make it accelerate faster than g.
 
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Happiness said:
The only forces acting on the atom is its own weight and the interatomic forces of attraction, which acts horizontally (left)
Why do you think those interatomic forces act horizontally?
 
Try this: Imagine a small piece of the rod that is just above the right support. What forces act on it?
 
Doc Al said:
Why do you think those interatomic forces act horizontally?

Because the rod is horizontal at first.

Suppose we picture the rod to be made of N horizontal rows of atoms. We may group each vertical column of N atoms as a "super-atom". Then these super-atoms are horizontally next one another. So the forces between them are assumed to be horizontal.
 
Happiness said:
Because the rod is horizontal at first.

Suppose we picture the rod to be made of N horizontal rows of atoms. We may group each vertical column of N atoms as a "super-atom". Then these super-atoms are horizontally next one another. So the forces between them are assumed to be horizontal.
Just because they are arranged horizontally does not mean that the forces are horizontal. (See the question in my last post.)
 
Doc Al said:
Try this: Imagine a small piece of the rod that is just above the right support. What forces act on it?

Suppose the rod is two-atom thick. Let ##M## and ##m## be the masses of the rod and of each atom respectively. Before the right support is removed, there is an upward force of ##\frac{1}{2}Mg## acting on the rightmost column of atoms. The total weight of this column is ##2mg##. Thus to keep it in equilibrium, the adjacent column must be acting on it a downward force of ##F=\frac{1}{2}Mg-2mg##. When the right support is removed, the net force acting on it will be ##F+2mg=\frac{1}{2}Mg##. Its acceleration will thus be ##\frac{Mg}{4m}##. But this is not necessarily ##1.5g##. What's wrong?
 
The point of that exercise was not to solve for the acceleration, but just to point out that one section of the rod must be exerting vertical forces on the other.

To solve for the acceleration of the end of the rod we'd just examine the torque on the rod. (The downward force on that end piece would change once the support is removed.)
 
Happiness said:
So the forces between them are assumed to be horizontal.
This is not correct.

You are thinking of a rope. An ideal rope can only support tension, meaning a force along the rope. However a rod can support shear stress as well, meaning forces perpendicular to the rod.

The end of the rod falls down faster than g because there is a downward shear force as well as the downward gravitational force.
 
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