How Can You Measure Phase Angle with Distorted Current Without Filters?

  • Thread starter Thread starter hisham.i
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Current
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around measuring the phase angle between voltage and current in the presence of distorted current signals, specifically exploring methods that do not involve filters. Participants are seeking to understand various algorithms, including zero crossing detection and Fourier transform techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using zero crossing detection for measuring phase angle but expresses concern about the distortion in the current signal.
  • Another participant indicates that the phase angle should be derived from the fundamental components of voltage and current, recommending the use of Fourier transform theory, specifically the Discrete Fourier Transform.
  • A participant questions the workings of the multiple zero crossing detection algorithm mentioned in the context of the phase meter.
  • It is noted that traditional methods include bandpass filters (BPF) combined with zero crossing detection or digital signal processing (DSP) with Fast Fourier Transform (FFT), with a preference for the DSP method due to reliability concerns with analog filters.
  • One participant shares an experience with a switched capacitor filter designed to track the frequency of the voltage signal, suggesting it as a solution to the issues faced with traditional filtering methods.
  • Another participant mentions a more recent approach using discrete wavelet transform (DWT) but recommends sticking with Discrete Fourier Transform over multiple zero crossing detection.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best method for measuring phase angle, with multiple competing views on the effectiveness of zero crossing detection, Fourier transforms, and wavelet transforms. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the effectiveness of various methods in the presence of distorted signals and the implications of using different filtering techniques. There is also a lack of clarity on the specific workings of the multiple zero crossing detection algorithm.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in signal processing, electrical engineering, and those looking for methods to measure phase angles in distorted current scenarios without relying on traditional filtering techniques.

hisham.i
Messages
176
Reaction score
2
Am trying to measure the phase angle between voltage and current, so i thought about zero crossing detection method, but the problem is that the current i am sensing is highly distorted, so i am trying to find a solution without using filters.

After searching i found a phase meter on the internet that works using multiple zero crossing detection but i didn't understand how this method works.

If anyone has idea of how this algorithm works please share your ideas.

This is the link of the phase meter that i found
http://www.powertekuk.com/phasemeter.htm

Thanks
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
The angle you are looking for is the angle between the fundamental components of voltage and current. You need to look at Fourier transform theory. This is the method used by the phase meter you are referring to (Discrete Fourier Transform).

M.
 
But what can i understand from multiple zero crossing detection?, how does this algorithm works?

This word is mentioned in the picture to the right.
 
The usual methods are either,

1. BPF and zero crossing detect.

Or

2. DSP and FFT (as Mbert suggested).

The DSP method is more reliable as analog BPF's with high Q can have a significant phase error if you're off the center frequency by even a small amount. So it's kind of a no win situation if you've got a lot of distortion or noise. You either use a low Q filter with small phase error but suffer from the noise and distortion not fully removed, or you use a high Q filter which adequately removes the noise and distortion but introduces it's own errors if there is even a slight center frequency error/drift.

One way I have seen the above (non DSP) problem reasonable well handled however was with the use of a switched capacitor filter that had it's clock input frequency locked to that of the voltage signal, so that the center frequency always tracked the signal frequency. (that one was designed and built by me btw. :smile:)
 
There is also a more recent approach that uses DWT (discrete wavelet tranform), but you're probably better off with just a Discrete Fourier Transform. Forget about the multiple zero crossing detection.

M.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 77 ·
3
Replies
77
Views
9K
  • · Replies 78 ·
3
Replies
78
Views
6K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
6K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
3K
Replies
13
Views
2K