How close do electrons and positrons have to be to interact?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions necessary for electrons and positrons to interact and annihilate each other. It explores theoretical aspects of particle interactions, conservation laws, and the implications of particle size and effective cross sections in different contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that electrons and positrons are point masses, while others argue that their effective size can vary depending on the situation.
  • One participant describes the annihilation process, noting that it produces gamma rays and conserves charge and momentum, while emphasizing the classical description of the collision.
  • Another participant points out that there is no single answer to how close electrons and positrons must be to annihilate, as this depends on the effective cross section and the energies of the particles involved.
  • A later reply discusses the probabilistic nature of annihilation, mentioning the use of scattering matrix elements and the implications of nonlocality in position states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of particle size and the conditions for annihilation, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in defining particle size and the complexities involved in calculating probabilities for annihilation events, which depend on various factors including energy and state representation.

Cato
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Electrons and positrons are assumed to be point masses. Two points presumably can never actually touch. How close do they have to be before they annihilate each other?
 
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When an electron and a positron collide an annihilation eventoccurs and gamma rays are produced. This is a frequent occurrence in PET scanning in hospitals.

The positron and electrons have opposite charges and so the overall charge before annihilation is zero. The resulting gamma rays have no charge. So charge is conserved in this collision.

In annihilation, the positron and electron collide head on moving at the same speed. The overall momentum is therefore zero. The resulting gamma rays move in opposite directions with equal and opposite momentum. So momentum is also conserved.

Einstein’s famous equation E = mc2 means that the mass of an object is a measure of its energy content, and that mass and energy can be converted into each other (mass energy).

In annihilation, the masses of both the positron and electron are converted into energy (gamma rays). The energy of the gamma rays is the same as the mass energy of the original positron and electron and so mass energy is also conserved.
 
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Cato said:
Electrons and positrons are assumed to be point masses.

Not really. The effective size of fundamental particles depends on the situation. In some situations there is no single number that describes their size.

Cato said:
How close do they have to be before they annihilate each other?

There is no single answer to this question because this is one of the situations where no single number describes the size of the particles. The effective cross section for electron-positron annihilation depends on the energies of the particles.
 
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Quantum9999 said:
In annihilation, the positron and electron collide head on moving at the same speed.

This is an approximate classical description of the process, which is good enough for, e.g., understanding how PET scanners work, but leaves out a lot.
 
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Cato said:
How close do they have to be before they annihilate each other?
The standard scattering matrix elements give the probability density that an electron and a positron in a plane wave (thus delocalized with precise momentum but completely uncertain position) annihilate. This translates into a decay rate for streams of colliding pairs in two beams. For other states (strictly speaking also for beams - using the paraxial approximation) one has to take the appropriate superposition of momentum states to calculate the probability. Since there are no normalizable position states, there will always be some nonlocality (lack of precise position).
 

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