How Do Oscilloscope Probes Compensate for Inner Capacitance?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on how oscilloscope probes compensate for the inner capacitance of the oscilloscope, particularly in relation to signal fidelity when measuring rectangular waveforms. Participants explore the implications of probe design on signal representation, including voltage division and time constants.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the inner capacitance of an oscilloscope can distort rectangular signals, leading to semi-sinusoidal representations, and questions how probes mitigate this issue.
  • Another participant explains that the capacitance in the probe can be adjusted to match the time constants of the oscilloscope input, allowing for cancellation of poles and zeros, which theoretically provides "infinite bandwidth."
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of voltage division at frequencies other than 0 or infinite, suggesting that real-world conditions may not yield a precise factor of 10 division.
  • A later reply emphasizes maintaining equal time constants to ensure consistent impedance ratios between the probe and the oscilloscope, which is said to stabilize output voltage.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of probe compensation across various frequencies, indicating that while some aspects of the discussion are understood, there is no consensus on the practical implications of these adjustments.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential assumptions about ideal conditions for voltage division and the impact of parasitic elements on performance, which are not fully resolved in the discussion.

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As far as I understand the problem is, because of inner capacitance of an oscilloscope, if we apply a rectangular signal on the screen we will see semi-sinusoidal one, and we want to handle this capacitance, that the scope shows correct signal. Right?

When we use a probe the circuit looks like a voltage devide:

http://www.elexp.com/tips/P_SCHPRB.GIF

By this voltage devider, as far as I can see, we reduce input voltage to oscilloscope by the factor of 10 (consider X10 probe).

My problems:

1. How this reduction of voltage removes the fluctuation on the 1 pic?
2. The devision of voltage by the factor of 10 will occur, as far as I understand, only at 0 frequency and infinite frequency, because in this case we can neglate resistors or capacitors, right? But if say frequency something like in the middle, then we have to consider all resistors and capacitors, which, I assume, will not give an exact devision by 10.
 
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The answer to both questions will be clear when you see that Cp in the probe can be adjusted. Note that Rp and Cp constitute a zero, and the scope input a pole. The idea is the Cp in the probe is adjusted so its time constant (RpCp) equals the time constant of the scope input (RinCin). In this case, the pole and the zero can cancel and the probe gives you "infinite bandwidth". So the capacitors cancel out and the division is exactly 10 across the range.

This removes the fluctuation in the pic because the bandwidth is higher. If we just connect a resistive probe then the signal sees a low-pass filter which rounds the edges like in the picture.

"infinite bandwidth" is in quotes because of course parasitics will limit the performance of this system.
 
Good answer by analogdesign. You may also find the Textronix 'scope probe primer document useful:

http://www.tek.com/learning/probes-tutorial

:smile:
 
Thank you! So the idea is to achieve equal time constant that the ratios between impedances of the scope and the probe stays the same, thus output voltage does not change
 

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