How Do You Calculate AC Waveform Components and Errors?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating components of an AC voltage waveform, specifically involving harmonics and their contributions to the overall waveform. Participants explore the mathematical expressions for the waveform, sketching the harmonic components, and determining instantaneous voltage and percentage error at a specific time. The scope includes theoretical calculations and homework-related queries.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Participants discuss the expression for the voltage waveform, with one participant proposing a formula that includes the fundamental and harmonic components.
  • There is a suggestion to plot the waveforms of the 3rd and 5th harmonics, with varying opinions on the appropriate time period for the sketch.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the phase angle for the 3rd harmonic and its implications on calculations.
  • Calculations for the instantaneous voltage at 20ms are presented, with participants verifying each other's results and discussing the correctness of their approaches.
  • There is a debate regarding the calculation of percentage error, with differing opinions on whether to use RMS or instantaneous values for comparison.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of using the correct denominator when calculating percentage error, leading to a refinement of the error calculation method.
  • Participants question the necessity of converting to peak values and discuss the implications of using RMS values in their calculations.
  • There are multiple attempts to clarify the calculations for the actual and ideal waveforms at 20ms, with some participants expressing confusion over their results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to calculate the waveform components and the importance of accuracy in their calculations. However, there are multiple competing views regarding the correct approach to calculating percentage error and the use of RMS versus instantaneous values, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations depend on assumptions about phase angles and whether to convert to peak values. There are unresolved mathematical steps regarding the correct method for calculating percentage error, and participants express uncertainty about the time intervals used for plotting waveforms.

oxon88
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Homework Statement



An A.C. voltage, V comprises of a fundamental voltage of 100V rms at a frequency of 120Hz, a 3rd harmonic which is 20% of the fundamental, a 5th harmonic which is 10% of the fundamental and at a phase angle of 1.2 radians lagging.

i) Write down an expression for the voltage waveform.

ii) Sketch the waveforms of the harmonic compnents.

iii) Determin the voltage at 20ms.

iv) Given an ideal V = 100V rms, what is the percentage error at 20ms


The Attempt at a Solution




part i)

V = Vrms * sqrt2 = 100* 1.414 = 141.4V at 120Hz

3rd harmonic = 20% of 141.4 = 28.28V at 360Hz

5th harmonic = 10% of 141.4 = 14.14V at 600Hz


v = (141.4sin(240∏t)) + (28.3sin(720∏t)) + (14.1sin(1200∏t-1.2))


does this first part look correct?
 
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oxon88 said:
v = (141.4sin(240∏t)) + (28.3sin(720∏t)) + (14.1sin(1200∏t-1.2))


does this first part look correct?
Yes, it looks okay.
 
Ok thanks. So for the sketch I just need to plot the 3rd harmonic and 5th harmonic. What time period would be appropriate?
 
A couple of cycles (of the fundamental) should do. But at least up to 20ms. (Note: the fundamental can also be referred to as the first harmonic.)
 
oxon88 said:
Ok thanks. So for the sketch I just need to plot the 3rd harmonic and 5th harmonic. What time period would be appropriate?

The fundamental should be plotted too (it's the "first harmonic").

Choose a time period that will display at least one full cycle of the fundamental.
 
should it look something like this?


harmonics.JPG
 
You're sketch for fifth harmonic should show x5 the frequency!
 
i think the ans is right...
 
Ok so i have changed the time scale and got this...


does this look as it should?

harmonics.JPG
 
  • #10
That looks more like it. :smile:
 
  • #11
ok great.

iii) Determin the voltage at 20ms.

v = (141.4sin(240∏*0.02)) + (28.3sin(720∏*0.02)) + (14.1sin(1200∏*0.02-1.2))

v = 83.11 + 26.91 - 13.14 = 96.88 vdoes this look correct?
 
  • #12
oxon88 said:
does this look correct?
It does.

Might be worth going back and checking to make sure that the problem did not specify a phase angle for the 3rd harmonic.
 
  • #13
Many thanks. I have checked the original question and there is no mention of a phase angle for the 3rd harmonic.
 
  • #14
ok so last part

iv) Given an ideal V = 100V rms, what is the percentage error at 20ms100v - 96.845v = 3.155v

so would it be 3.155% ?
 
  • #15
oxon88 said:
ok so last part

iv) Given an ideal V = 100V rms, what is the percentage error at 20ms


100v - 96.845v = 3.155v

so would it be 3.155% ?
I'm sure you can't mix RMS and instantaneous values to get anything meaningful.
 
  • #16
ok so would i need to work out the RMS at 20ms?

96.845 / (√2) = 68.5v


then work this out as a % of the 100v rms?


100v - 68.5v = 31.5v = 31.5% error?

am i making any sense?
 
  • #17
oxon88 said:
ok so would i need to work out the RMS at 20ms?

96.845 / (√2) = 68.5v


then work this out as a % of the 100v rms?


100v - 68.5v = 31.5v = 31.5% error?

am i making any sense?
The only calculation that would make sense to me would be based on:

ideal instantaneous value at that time - actual instantaneous value
 
  • #18
Actual instantaneous value at 20ms v = (141.4sin(240∏*0.02)) + (28.3sin(720∏*0.02)) + (14.1sin(1200∏*0.02-1.2))

v = 83.11 + 26.91 - 13.14 = 96.88 v


Ideal instantaneous value at 20ms = 141.42Sin(240∏*0.02) = 83.11v


error = [(83.11v - 96.845v)/100]*100 = -13.735%
 
  • #19
does the answer above look ok?


i have ploted a graph to show actual Vs. Ideal

untitled.JPG
 
  • #20
oxon88 said:
error = [(83.11v - 96.845v)/100]*100 = -13.735%
I would not have divided by 100 when determining fractional error. Some other data value would seem more appropriate.
 
  • #21
ok but the question asks for a % error?
 
  • #22
NascentOxygen said:
The only calculation that would make sense to me would be based on:

ideal instantaneous value at that time - actual instantaneous value
On second thought, it would be better to swap them:

actual instantaneous value - ideal instantaneous value at that time

So if the actual value were a few volts too high, the error would be +ve.
 
  • #23
oxon88 said:
ok but the question asks for a % error?
I was referring to where you divided by 100.
 
  • #24
ah right ok. so...

error = [(96.845v - 83.11v)/83.11]*100 = 16.5%
 
  • #25
How did you decide that 96.845 would be the appropriate denominator here?

EDIT Yes, 83.1V does seem the better choice.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #26
changed it now. I saw it was incorrect. It will be 83.11 because that's the ideal voltage at 20ms.
 
  • #27
Oxon88 was the sketch of the waveforms for the harmonic components correct?? I have values for them all but not sure how to construct the sketch as I am unsure of the time intervals to use for the different waveforms.
 
  • #28
Big Jock said:
Oxon88 was the sketch of the waveforms for the harmonic components correct?? I have values for them all but not sure how to construct the sketch as I am unsure of the time intervals to use for the different waveforms.

Yes it was correct. I can't remember what time intervals i used. I can have a look for the spreadsheet and check later for you.
 
  • #29
Perfect Ill try and work it all out now from your images in the meantime
 
  • #30
NascentOxygen or Oxon88 how to do you calculate the various different values for your graph? I can't quite get my head round that part and would be very grateful of a little help with understanding it please...
 

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