How Do You Determine the Transfer Function of a First Order Control System?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the transfer function of a first-order control system governing the water level in a tank. Participants explore the algebraic steps necessary to express the transfer function, time constant, and steady-state gain, with a focus on the mathematical manipulation of the governing equations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a governing equation for the control system and seeks assistance in deriving the transfer function in a specific form.
  • Another participant questions why the original poster cannot form the ratio H(s)/Hi(s) from their equation, suggesting it may be a matter of algebraic manipulation.
  • There is a discussion about the transformation of the equation into the desired form, with one participant expressing frustration over their difficulty with algebraic division.
  • A later reply emphasizes the importance of focusing on the specific transfer function H(s)/Hi(s) and suggests disregarding other transfer functions that may complicate the problem.
  • Participants share their struggles with the algebra involved and express a desire for examples or further clarification to aid their understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the steps needed to derive the transfer function but express varying levels of confidence and understanding regarding the algebraic manipulations required. The discussion remains unresolved as participants continue to seek clarity on the mathematical process.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of missing assumptions regarding the algebraic steps, and participants express uncertainty about their ability to perform necessary manipulations. The discussion reflects a reliance on prior knowledge of algebra that some participants feel they lack.

pobatso
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Hi all, got a Control question here, and I'm struggling with what I assume is a simple algebraic step. Thanks in advance!

Homework Statement


A closed loop control system governs the level of water in a tank (H(s)) to meet a target height (Hi(S)). The flow of water into the tank is controlled by a transducer that feeds the current level of the tank into a differencing junction that works out the error (H(s)-Hi(s)). The flow rate of water pumped in is proportional to this error, with gain K.

The flow out of the tank is also constrained by a linearized flow restrictor, with flow out equal to the height/constant (Qd=H(s)/R).

There is also an additional flow into the tank from a separate pipe, with flow rate Qd.

The question is to find the transfer function, time constant and steady state gain. I've attached a diagram.

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution



So far I've gotten as far as the governing equation:
Qi + Qd - Qo = A.dH(t)/Dt
Laplace: Qi(s) + Qd(s) - Qo(s) = A.s.H(s)

Where Qi = Flow in
Qd = Additional disturbance flow
Qo = Flow out
A = XSection area of tank

Using the information about the individual components this goes to:

K.Hi(s) - K.H(s) + Qd(s) - H(s)/R = A.s.H(s)

The correct way to describe transfer function (Checked with answer booklet):

H(s)=(R.K.Hi + R.Qd(s)) / (R.k +R.A.s + 1)

But I can't get the hang of expressing it in a way that would allow me to get the specific time function, ie I can't arrange it into form H(s)/Hi(s)=u/(1+Ts) where u is the SS Gain and T is the time constant.

Any help with this step would be fab!

Regards
 

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You have the right equation, so why can't you form H/Hi?

Is you problem the fact that you have a transform of the form a/(bs + c + 1)? Surely you know how to change that to the form d/(es+1)? High school algebra! :-)
 
Yes mate, that's the one. I know that I'm being a bit of a moron with this one, but its just left me. Watching youtube vids as well to help bring it back, but I think just having one example from someone else with one of these that is related to this topic area as well would be a great help, even if it is stuff I once covered in what feels like a very long time ago :)
 
pobatso said:
Yes mate, that's the one. I know that I'm being a bit of a moron with this one, but its just left me. Watching youtube vids as well to help bring it back, but I think just having one example from someone else with one of these that is related to this topic area as well would be a great help, even if it is stuff I once covered in what feels like a very long time ago :)

Righto! Let's take the general expression a/(bs+c+1). Now, divide numerator and denominator by c+1. What do you get?
 
Think that's it! Know its pretty stupid, but I can't get any sense out of the division. Not a good sign to get to 2nd year Uni without learning algebraic division :/ Thanks again!
 
pobatso said:
Think that's it! Know its pretty stupid, but I can't get any sense out of the division. Not a good sign to get to 2nd year Uni without learning algebraic division :/ Thanks again!

How about a/(bs + c+1) = d/(es+1) where

d = a/(c+1)
e = b/(c+1)

?
 
Yeah, I can't do it. Have been trying for a bit now, wasting far too much time on something this simple!
 
Have gotten something like:

(R^2(K^2.Hi + K.Qd(s)) - R(K.Hi + Qd(s))) / (R^2(A.K.s + K^2) - R.A.s -1
 
pobatso said:
Using the information about the individual components this goes to:

K.Hi(s) - K.H(s) + Qd(s) - H(s)/R = A.s.H(s)

Move all the H(s) terms to the left-hand side of this equation (which you yourself correctly derived). Then form H(s)/Hi(s). You must realize that there are really two transfer functions: H(s)/Hi(s) and H(s)/Qd(s). The problem ask you for the former only, so disregard the latter.

Then reduce the denominator of H(s)/Hi(s) to es+1 as I've shown you.

Don't give up!
 

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