industria77
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can anyone refer me to a graphical representation of how this works so i can build one?
i was watching a video on vacuum forming, the author had built a home made vacuum former with two shop vacs to increase the vacuum pressure. in the comments someone suggested to run the vacuums in series to further increase vacuum. i have a need for stronger vacuum and have several pumps, i need to build a framework to run them in series, i looked into this and can find no illustration of the positioning of the pumps or the airflow, i need to see how it works so i can build the cabinetry to make it work myself.Nidum said:We'll need a bit more information than that before anyone can give a sensible answer .
basically i need to see the route the air flows through the pumpsindustria77 said:i was watching a video on vacuum forming, the author had built a home made vacuum former with two shop vacs to increase the vacuum pressure. in the comments someone suggested to run the vacuums in series to further increase vacuum. i have a need for stronger vacuum and have several pumps, i need to build a framework to run them in series, i looked into this and can find no illustration of the positioning of the pumps or the airflow, i need to see how it works so i can build the cabinetry to make it work myself.
compressors and fans, i was thinking of with the fans, mostly various vacuume cleaner motorsJBA said:You say you have several "pumps" what type do you actually have?
thats what i had always thought. but the guy needed more vacuume and he ran two vacs to get it ans some guy claiming to be an engineer suggested to run them in series, i looked into it and got intrigued because i need a better vacuume cleaner to clean up my floors. there seems to be a lot on the subject as if it is commonly in practice but i can't find any depictions of it in pictures so i can't understand how theyre saying this works, but they claim there is a substantial increaseVanadium 50 said:Vacuum pumps don't work this way. There's only so much air that can be taken out, and when it's out, it's out. If you have a pump that will let you get down to a certain pressure, adding a second pump that can also get down to the same pressure will not substantially improve the vacuum.
not the way i invisioned it the second pump would be in the airflow of the first and so it would actually be supercooled but i think the second motor might overheat, i don't know the idea just intrigued me i haven't built anything, but i could.Bystander said:Running "vacuum cleaners" as opposed to vacuum pumps is an invitation to burn wards; block an air cooled electric motor's source of cooling air and temperatures will rise.
isnt what your referring to as running them in parrelell?Vanadium 50 said:Vacuum pumps don't work this way. There's only so much air that can be taken out, and when it's out, it's out. If you have a pump that will let you get down to a certain pressure, adding a second pump that can also get down to the same pressure will not substantially improve the vacuum.
Bystander said:Running "vacuum cleaners" as opposed to vacuum pumps is an invitation to burn wards; block an air cooled electric motor's source of cooling air and temperatures will rise.
thanks for the tip,i didnt realize there was a difference, at any rate, i still am curious as to how it works it seems even more difficult to understand the housing now if it is two compressorsBystander said:Running "vacuum cleaners" as opposed to vacuum pumps is an invitation to burn wards; block an air cooled electric motor's source of cooling air and temperatures will rise.
You're misunderstanding the objection. When you run a vacuum cleaner as a vacuum pump, you are cutting off almost all of the airflow. So you have one fan that heats up its tiny airflow a lot, then passes that really hot air to another fan that heats it up even more.industria77 said:not the way i invisioned it the second pump would be in the airflow of the first and so it would actually be supercooled but i think the second motor might overheat, i don't know the idea just intrigued me i haven't built anything, but i could.
industria77 said:isnt what your referring to as running them in parrelell?
yes i understand that, i don't think ill make anything like this but i was curious about the design, apparently someones manufactured a machine like this though according to http://www.cleansmartsupplies.co.uk/in-series-versus-airflow-vacuum/ , and id seen a little more on it in other places.russ_watters said:You're misunderstanding the objection. When you run a vacuum cleaner as a vacuum pump, you are cutting off almost all of the airflow. So you have one fan that heats up its tiny airflow a lot, then passes that really hot air to another fan that heats it up even more.
no, you described it and used the phrase in seriesVanadium 50 said:Did I use the word parallel?
Mechanical turbomolecular pumps need the large mean free path to work.Plat said:For mechanical pumps, a lower pressure limit exists because when the pressure is low enough, the mean free path of the gas molecules grows larger than the internal clearances between parts in the pump, and it stops flowing as a gas.