How does a Synchronous condenser shift the phase

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the mechanisms by which a synchronous condenser alters the phase relationship between current and voltage waveforms, particularly focusing on the effects of rotor excitation in synchronous motors and generators. Participants explore theoretical aspects, phasor diagrams, and reference frame transformations related to synchronous machines.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how over-excitation or under-excitation of the rotor affects the power factor, suggesting it relates to the armature reaction flux vector.
  • Another participant explains that changing excitation alters the back emf vector, which in turn modifies the phase angle between the resultant emf and the supply voltage, thereby affecting the power factor.
  • A different participant asserts that the armature reaction flux vector primarily influences the magnitude of the synchronous impedance.
  • Another participant introduces the D-Q (direct and quadrature) transformation as a potentially simpler framework for understanding synchronous machines, although they note the inadequacy of the linked Wikipedia article.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of the armature reaction flux vector and the effectiveness of the D-Q transformation, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference phasor diagrams and the relationship between various vectors, but the discussion does not resolve the complexities of these relationships or the implications of the D-Q transformation.

tim9000
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Hi,
So when you over-excite the rotor of a synchronous motor, or under-excite the rotor of a synchronous generator, how is the flux actually changing the power factor of the armature to leading? (something to do with the magnitude of the armature reaction flux vector?)
That is to ask: by what mechanism does this modify the relation of the current to the voltage waveforms?

Pictures welcome.

Cheers!
 
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tim9000 said:
Hi,
So when you over-excite the rotor of a synchronous motor, or under-excite the rotor of a synchronous generator, how is the flux actually changing the power factor of the armature to leading? (something to do with the magnitude of the armature reaction flux vector?)
That is to ask: by what mechanism does this modify the relation of the current to the voltage waveforms?

Pictures welcome.

Cheers!
The current flowing through the motor (Iph or Iaph) is due to the resultant emf i.e. vector sum of stator voltage applied(Vph) and back emf Eb.
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMwZ3lEGu84tDmQI6AMjEHij62cGqC16iL8OZa1L0FlbUBTXYs.png

When the excitation is changed, length of Eb vector changes (and Vph is constant throughout). This changes the magnitude as well as phase of the resultant emf. You can see it in the phasor diagram. There is a phase difference of θ(≅90°) between Er and Iph. So, as the Er vector changes its phase, I am vector is dragged along with it, thereby changing the power factor angle. Magnitude of I am also changes as magnitude of Er has changed (Er=Im*Zs) and it changes in such a way that its active component remains constant i.e. Im*cosΦ is constant since the loading condition is unchanged.
So, to summarize,
Change in excitation changes the phase angle of the opposing emf→Hence, the angle between resultant emf and supply voltage(Vph) changes. →As I am and Er have fixed phase difference, I am is modified as per the magnitude and position of Er→This changes the angle between I am and Vph(Vph is fixed)→This changes the p.f.
 
Last edited:
tim9000 said:
something to do with the magnitude of the armature reaction flux vector?
I believe armature reaction flux vector only determines the magnitude of Zs.
 
Last edited:
The secret to understanding synchronous machines is to shift your reference frame to the D-Q (direct and quadrature) axes. Everything becomes magically simpler and easy to understand in that frame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct–quadrature–zero_transformation

Unfortunately, that Wikipedia article is not very good. Other PF regulars, maybe Jim Hardy, can think of a better reference for you to study.
 

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