Power System, synchronous generator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of a synchronous generator under specific operating conditions, particularly focusing on the relationship between active power, reactive power, and voltage in a power system context. The scenario involves a synchronous generator running overexcited, connected to a network, and experiencing a change in active power due to an increase in turbine input without a response from the excitation controller.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a mathematical approach to determine how reactive power (Q) is affected by changes in active power (P) and voltage (V_t), suggesting that Q may not change with an increase in turbine input based on their interpretation of the equations.
  • Another participant references a previous discussion, indicating that while P changes with angle, Q changes with voltage, but emphasizes that all variables are interdependent, complicating the analysis.
  • A different participant proposes a phasor diagram approach to visualize the problem, assuming the network voltage is fixed and analyzing the relationship between current and voltage in the context of Ohm's and Kirchhoff's laws.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the assumptions made regarding the current's phase and its impact on the reactive power calculation.
  • Another participant acknowledges the complexity of the problem and invites corrections or improvements to their explanation, indicating a collaborative approach to understanding the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how reactive power is influenced by changes in active power and voltage, with no consensus reached on the correct interpretation of the equations or the overall behavior of the synchronous generator under the given conditions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of power system dynamics, with participants acknowledging the interdependence of variables and the potential for multiple interpretations of the mathematical relationships involved. Assumptions regarding fixed network voltage and current phase are not universally agreed upon.

LagCompensator
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Sorry for bad title(little informative regarding my question), however I came across the following question given as an exam question at some university.

Question:
"A synchronous generator is running overexcited with excitation voltage Ef = 1.40 p.u and connected to the network at voltage of 1 p.u. This generator has synchronous reactance of 1.20 p.u., and delivering active power of 0.50 p.u. to the network. In the network, there is 1% increase in real power due to power drop from uncontrolled network connected renewable power source. Therefore, the prime mover (i.e. turbine) input is increased by 1%. The excitation or voltage controller of synchronous generator is not responding to this change. Explain how the reactive power delivery from the synchronous generator will change under this condition"

So, the Q delivered by the generator per phase is:
Q = \frac{E_fV_t}{X_d}cos(\delta)-\frac{V_{t}^{2}}{X_d}-V_{t}^{2}(\frac{1}{X_d}-\frac{1}{X_q})sin^2(\delta) (1)
So according to this equation the Q will not change due to increase in turbine input.
However if we take a look at this equation:
P = \frac{E_fV_t}{X_d}sin(\delta)-\frac{V_{t}^{2}}{X_d}-V_{t}^{2}(\frac{1}{X_d}-\frac{1}{X_q})sin(2\delta) (2)
An increase of P will cause an increase in V_t, and an increase of V_t will increase the reactive power delivered by the sync. generator according to equation (1)

Can someone tell me if this is the right way of thinking or if I am missing something please tell me.

Best Regards
 
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later after I've checked my phasor arithmetic...

seems to me Vt is fixed by network at 1.0 and this is a (Vexc-Vnetwork)/jXs question.
You're given the real component before and after.
 
@LagCompensator
I'll take a stab at this.
Being not a power system guy it'll be amateurish
but i hope logical.
As textbooks and teaching methods evolve, some things become so refined that we lose track of the lower parts of the learning curve.
LagCompensator said:
Question:
"A synchronous generator is running overexcited with excitation voltage Ef = 1.40 p.u and connected to the network at voltage of 1 p.u. This generator has synchronous reactance of 1.20 p.u., and delivering active power of 0.50 p.u. to the network. In the network, there is 1% increase in real power due to power drop from uncontrolled network connected renewable power source. Therefore, the prime mover (i.e. turbine) input is increased by 1%. The excitation or voltage controller of synchronous generator is not responding to this change. Explain how the reactive power delivery from the synchronous generator will change under this condition"

Okay , a picture might help us grunt this one out from the basics... I think in pictures not formulas.
Here's how i envision that circuit.
Circle at bottom is phasor diagram,
since we don't know power angle of the machine (angle of Ef) i just drew Ef some arbitrary place on a circle with radius 1.4.
syncgen1.jpg

What do we know ?
Vnetwork i assumed infinite bus since they gave us no network impedance value.
I gave it value 1∠0 so it'll be our reference for phasor diagram. Polar for 1∠0 is 1+j0 .

We know that Iline has real component 0.5 because power is 0.5 .
So it'll have imaginary component jVars.
I'll assume lagging current, so that'll be -jVars. If I'm wrong we'll just get a negative Var current. Iline = 0.5 -jVars

Ohm's law tells us voltage across Zline is Iline X Zline.

Kirchoff's voltage law tells us that
Vnetwork + Iline X Zline = Vf
but we have a lot of unknown angles...

Let's plug in what we know
Vnetwork + Iline X Zline = Vf
1+j0 + (0.5 -jVars) X (j1.2) = 1.4∠unknown
1 +j0.6 +1.2XVars = 1.4∠unknown
Aha !
Look back at the phasor diagram
we have a right triangle with adjacent side (1.0 + 1.2XVars) volts, opposite side 0.6 volts, hypotenuse 1.4 volts and no angles known.
Pythagoras let's us find adjacent side
(1.0 +1.2XVars) = √(1.42 - 0.62)
1.2 X Vars = 1.265 -1
so Vars = (1.265 - 1) / 1.2 = 0.2207

Repeating for real component of Iline = 0.51 i get 0.2159

That's the simplistic approach i'd use. If we worked numerous problems a shortcut would probably show its head..


Maybe some kind soul will improve(or correct) my explanation...
 
Last edited:
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Thank you, i'll take a closer look once I get home from work.
 

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