How does an electric dynamometer measure friction power?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the measurement of friction power using an electric dynamometer during motoring tests of engines. Participants explore the relationship between engine output power, friction power, and the role of the dynamometer in these measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that during a motoring test, the engine's power is absorbed by the dynamometer, and when the fuel supply is cut off, the dynamometer acts as a motor to maintain engine speed, which allows for the measurement of friction power.
  • There is a question regarding whether the power supplied to the motor should equal the engine's output power to overcome friction and maintain speed, indicating confusion about the relationship between these powers.
  • One participant clarifies that when an engine is idling, the power output is zero, and thus all fuel energy is used to combat friction power, suggesting that the energy required by an external motor to maintain rpm equals the friction power.
  • Another participant confirms that friction power does vary with rpm, noting that friction mean effective pressure (FMEP) is proportional to mean piston speed, which is linked to rpm.
  • It is mentioned that to calculate friction power, FMEP must be multiplied by volumetric flow rate, which also varies with rpm, indicating a relationship between friction power and the square of rpm.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express some agreement on the concept that friction power can be measured through the dynamometer setup, but there remains confusion and differing interpretations regarding the relationship between engine output power and friction power, as well as the implications of rpm on friction power.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the conditions under which the measurements are taken, such as the engine being idling or under load, are not fully explored. The discussion also does not resolve the confusion regarding the equivalence of power supply to the motor and engine output power.

Fady Alphons
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So I read that in a motoring test (to test the engine power), the engine is run to the desired speed by its own power. The power is absorbed by an electric dynamometer. Then, the fuel supply is cut-off and the dynamometer is converted to work as a motor to drive the engine at the same speed. After that the power supply to the motor becomes a measure of the friction power.
My question is, How is this a measure of friction power? Shouldn't the power supply to motor be the same as the output power of the engine to overcome friction and also make it work at the same speed? how is it only a measure of friction power?
 
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Fady Alphons said:
My question is, How is this a measure of friction power?
You measure the power needed to operate the engine at the given speed. The full power gets lost to friction.
Fady Alphons said:
Shouldn't the power supply to motor be the same as the output power of the engine to overcome friction and also make it work at the same speed?
I don't understand that question.
 
Fady Alphons said:
Shouldn't the power supply to motor be the same as the output power of the engine to overcome friction and also make it work at the same speed? how is it only a measure of friction power?

When an engine is idling at a given rpm (meaning no load, transmission in neutral) the power output is zero. This means that all the fuel burned is used to fight the friction power (which includes also the power for the oil pump, water pump, etc.). So if you cut the fuel, the energy required by an outside motor to maintain the same rpm will have to be the same as the friction power.
 
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jack action said:
When an engine is idling at a given rpm (meaning no load, transmission in neutral) the power output is zero. This means that all the fuel burned is used to fight the friction power (which includes also the power for the oil pump, water pump, etc.). So if you cut the fuel, the energy required by an outside motor to maintain the same rpm will have to be the same as the friction power.
That helped me very much Jack. I understand now that there is no load (delivered torque) so there is no brake power. Thanks :)
 
hey jack so does that mean the friction power varies with rpm?
 

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