How Does Horizontal Force on a Constrained Mass Change with Displacement?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MalachiK
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Mass Spring
AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on analyzing the horizontal force exerted on a constrained mass attached to a spring as it is displaced. The force is derived from Hooke's law, leading to the expression F_x = (qx^2)/l_0 when x is much smaller than the natural length of the spring. The potential energy U(x) is found to be proportional to x^3, suggesting that the exponent n in the potential function is 3, although there is uncertainty about expressing n in terms of the problem's constants. The participants also explore the period of motion, ultimately leading to an integral formulation that requires evaluation between specific limits to confirm the period expression. The conversation reflects a thorough examination of the mechanics involved and the mathematical relationships governing the system.
MalachiK
Messages
137
Reaction score
4
1. The problem statement,
A spring of stiffness q and natural length l0 is fixed at one end to a point x = 0, y = l0 and at the other end to a mass m that is constrained to move horizontally and displaced through a horizontal distance x. The length of the string in this position is l.

1. For x << l0, how does the force in the horizontal direction change with x?
2. If the potential U(x) ≈ Axn, for small x, what are the values of A and n in terms of the constants given?

Homework Equations


Hooke's law etc.

The Attempt at a Solution


It seems to me that the force on the string should be q(l - l0) in the direction of the spring and that the horizontal component of this is q(l - l0) cos(θ) where θ is the angle between the spring and the horizontal. To get something explicitly in x I need to unpack this a bit.

l = √(l02 + x2) and cos(θ) = x/l I get that...
##F_x = \frac{q(\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}-l_0)x}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}##
and after squaring, cancelling off terms and taking the root again becomes
##F_x = \frac{qx^2}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}##

I think that if x << l0 we can say that ##l_0^2 + x^2 \approx l_0^2##
So ##F_x = \frac{qx^2}{l_0}##

q/l0 has units of N/m2.. giving my force expression units of Newtons so my heart fills with hope that it might be correct! It's too good to be true, so almost certainly wrong.

Now since ##\frac{dU}{dx} = F = \frac{qx^2}{l_0}## I get ##U(x) = \frac{qx^3}{3l_0}## which looks something like what we should have and gives us A in terms of some stuff in the problem statement. BUT.. I don't see how n can be expressed in terms of constants from the original problem. The only two candidates are the length terms that would divide to give a dimensionless exponent. I can't make this connection.

Also, later in the problem we're given n = 4 and asked to find the period of the motion. This makes me suspect that n should in fact depend on something to do with the values in the system but I can't see how.

If everything that I've done is correct I shall keep on thinking (tomorrow - it's past midnight here). But if somebody points out a problem then I'll go back and fix it.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
MalachiK said:
##F_x = \frac{q(\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}-l_0)x}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}##
OK, but how you make this:
MalachiK said:
##F_x = \frac{qx^2}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}##
My formula is:
$$F_x = \dfrac{q(\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}-l_0)x}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}=\frac{qx^3}{(\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}+l_0)\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}$$
MalachiK said:
I think that if x << l0 we can say that l20+x2≈l20l02+x2≈l02l_0^2 + x^2 \approx l_0^2
I think you shouldn't use this approximate
I think you should use Taylor series approximate:$$(1+(\frac{x}{l_0})^2)^n$$
 
Last edited:
I'm taking another look at this this evening.
##F_x = \frac{q(\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}-l_0)x}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}## is just...
##F_x = q x \frac{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}-l_0}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}##
##F_x = qx \bigg({1-\frac{l_0}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}}\bigg)##
I don't know what I was thinking the first time I tried to wrangle that expression. I think I got fixated on multiplying to remove the roots or something.
For very small values of x, I guess I can take the first couple of terms from the Taylor series of the fraction
##\frac{l_0}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}} = 1 - \frac{l_0x^2}{2l_0^3} + ...##
and put that into the force expression to get
##F_x = -qx\bigg(\frac{x^2}{2l_0^2}\bigg) = \frac{-qx^3}{2l_0^2}##
This seems like a better answer because it has the force pointing in the right direction, the correct units and it has the potential energy going like ##x^4##.
 
Last edited:
MalachiK said:
This seems like a better answer
Looks right. Just before the final step, you lost an exponent of 2 on l0 in typing it in, but it reappeared at the end.
 
haruspex said:
Looks right. Just before the final step, you lost an exponent of 2 on l0 in typing it in, but it reappeared at the end.
Oh yeah. thanks for pointing that out. I just did an edit and fixed it.

Now I'm going to have a crack at the time period.
 
Okay.. setting ##B = \frac{q}{2ml_0^2}## I can write ##F_x(x) = m\frac{d^2x}{dt^2}## so ##\frac{d^2x}{dt^2} = -Bx^3##

I had to look up some examples, but in the end I got a solution that I posted here. I should have read the rules and not posted this in the DE forum. Anyhow, eventually I get this...

##\sqrt{\frac{2}{B}}\int{\frac{1}{\sqrt{x_0^4+x^4}}dx} = \int{dt}##

It seems that the integral on the left is only defined for ##x < x_0## which makes we wonder if this is correct. I don't actually need to evaluate the integral as in this case the problem just asks me to show that the period = some expression that looks like the left hand side integral evaluated between some limits. In fact, the result I'm given is [some constants] ##\int_0^1{\frac{du}{\sqrt{1-u^4}}}##

If I evaluate the integral on the right between 0 and T/4 then I'll get T/4 (T = the period). This means that the left hand side integral needs to be evaluated between 0 and ##x_0##, right?
 
I multiplied the values first without the error limit. Got 19.38. rounded it off to 2 significant figures since the given data has 2 significant figures. So = 19. For error I used the above formula. It comes out about 1.48. Now my question is. Should I write the answer as 19±1.5 (rounding 1.48 to 2 significant figures) OR should I write it as 19±1. So in short, should the error have same number of significant figures as the mean value or should it have the same number of decimal places as...
Thread 'A cylinder connected to a hanging mass'
Let's declare that for the cylinder, mass = M = 10 kg Radius = R = 4 m For the wall and the floor, Friction coeff = ##\mu## = 0.5 For the hanging mass, mass = m = 11 kg First, we divide the force according to their respective plane (x and y thing, correct me if I'm wrong) and according to which, cylinder or the hanging mass, they're working on. Force on the hanging mass $$mg - T = ma$$ Force(Cylinder) on y $$N_f + f_w - Mg = 0$$ Force(Cylinder) on x $$T + f_f - N_w = Ma$$ There's also...
Back
Top