How Does Pressure in a Sealed Container Change Over Multiple Cycles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical modeling of pressure changes in a sealed container system over multiple cycles. Participants explore the behavior of pressure in a 10-liter container connected to a 1-liter container, focusing on how pressure equalization and venting to the atmosphere affect the overall pressure in the larger container over time.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a scenario involving a 10-liter sealed container and a 1-liter container, detailing the process of pressure equalization and venting to the atmosphere.
  • Another participant confirms the initial pressure equation provided and suggests testing it with specific values.
  • A different participant derives a formula for the pressure after n cycles, indicating that the pressure approaches a certain value as cycles increase.
  • Further, a more general form of the pressure equation is proposed, incorporating a sink pressure and allowing for initial pressures below atmospheric conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to agree on the validity of the initial pressure equation and the general approach to modeling the pressure changes. However, there is no consensus on the final form of the equation or the implications of starting with pressures below atmospheric.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the implications of their derived equations, and the assumptions regarding the behavior of pressure in the system remain implicit. The discussion does not clarify the conditions under which the derived formulas hold true.

jstefanop
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Im tryng to solve an equation for how pressure changes over time in a container. It goes something like this

There is a 10 liter sealed container(V1) with x amount of initial pressure (P1), and a 1 liter container attached to it (V2) with one valve that opens between them, and then another valve that opens to atmosphere. The initial pressure in the 1 liter attachment is atmospheric (P2).

For each cycle the valve opens between the pressureised 10 liter container and the one liter at 1 atm, the pressure then equalizes in both containers. Then the inner valve is closed and the outer valve is opened on the 1 liter container and pressure is vented to atmosphere (so the 1 liter container returns to 1atm) then the outside valve is closed and the cycle continues.

I need to find out after how many cycles does the large 10 liter container reach a certain pressure above 1 atm...

I can figure out what the pressure is in the container after they equalize each time which is
P= (P1*V1 +P2*V2)/(V1+V2)

So let's say the initial pressure is of P1 is 2atm after the first cycle the pressure would be P = (2*10l +1l*1atm)/(1l+10l) = 1.91 atm

then the second cycle would be P = (1.91*10l +1l*1atm)/(1l+10l) = 1.83 atm

etc etc

so what would be the equation t describe this pressure drop over a certain number of cycles? i.e. P(c) = ?
 
Last edited:
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jstefanop said:
P= (P1*V1 +P2*V2)/(V1+V2)
Okay.
jstefanop said:
say the initial pressure is of P1 is 2 x atm
Now try it.
 
I'll have to accept your physics, because I don't know how to do that, but juggling your equation round and using V1, V2, and P2 as constants, I get a formula for Pn after n cycles, as

( (Pn ) -1 ) = ## (\frac {10}{11})^n ## ((P0) -1 )

Edit - added excess brackets just to make clear
 
Last edited:
Or in a more general form

( Pn - Px ) = ( P0 - Px ) ##( \frac{V1}{V1 + V2})^n##

Where Px is the sink pressure, P0 is the container starting pressure and Pn is the container pressure after n cycles.

Edit - BTW this looks so nice to me, that I think your physics must be correct!
Edit2 - and it looks as if you could start with container pressure below atmospheric as well.
 
Last edited:

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