How Does Stern-Gerlach Experiment Determine Proton Spin Orientation?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on determining the spin orientation of protons using the Stern-Gerlach experiment, specifically regarding the fraction of protons with spin down relative to the y-axis. The user presents a spinor matrix and seeks clarification on how to expand it in terms of the eigenstates of the spin operator Sy. It is explained that to find the probabilities, one must express the state in terms of the eigenstates of Sy, which requires diagonalizing the corresponding matrix. The conversation emphasizes that calculating expectation values does not yield probabilities, and the correct approach involves squaring the coefficients of the expanded state. Overall, the thread highlights the need for a solid understanding of quantum mechanics principles to solve the problem effectively.
ihatelolcats
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Homework Statement


A beam delivering protons is sent through a stern-gerlach splitter oriented to ask whether the spin is oriented parallel to the y axis. What fraction of protons have spin down with respect to the y axis?
\chi=\stackrel{1}{\sqrt{17}} \stackrel{4}{i}
the 4, i thing is the spinor matrix.

Homework Equations


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The Attempt at a Solution


is it just the expectation value, <Sy>? that doesn't seem right at all, but the textbook is not very helpful
my other idea is that its just 1/2 and I've wasted a couple hours

ps: sorry my latex skill is poor
 
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What exactly is \chi? You just kind of throw it out there without saying what it has to do with the problem.
 
sorry, it is the state the protons are in
 
Expand \chi in terms of the eigenstates of Sy.
 
i'm not sure what you mean by expand in terms of Sy
i have \chi = 1/sqrt(17) (\stackrel{4}{0}) + 1/sqrt(17) (\stackrel{0}{i})

Sy = \hbar /2 \stackrel{0}{i} \stackrel{-i}{0}

where to go from here?
i'm still going to have to take an expectation of something to get a probability...

do you know of a reference or something online i can use to learn how to do this? i have griffiths intro to QM textbook, but like i said it isn't helpful on this. due friday heh.
 
ihatelolcats said:
i'm not sure what you mean by expand in terms of Sy
i have \chi = 1/sqrt(17) (\stackrel{4}{0}) + 1/sqrt(17) (\stackrel{0}{i})
It's actually

\chi = \frac{4}{\sqrt{17}} \begin{pmatrix}1 \\ 0\end{pmatrix} + \frac{1}{\sqrt{17}} \begin{pmatrix} 0 \\ 1 \end{pmatrix}

where, presumably,

\begin{pmatrix} 1 \\ 0 \end{pmatrix}

is the Sz spin-up eigenstate and

\begin{pmatrix} 0 \\ 1 \end{pmatrix}

is the Sz spin-down eigenstate. You can determine the probability of finding the particle in a spin state by squaring the modulus of the corresponding coefficient. For example, in this case, the probability of finding it in the spin-up state would be 16/17, and in the spin-down state, 1/17.

But this problem is asking you to find the probabilities using the y-axis instead of the z-axis, so what you want to do is find the eigenstates of Sy by diagonalizing the matrix

\hat{S}_y = \frac{\hbar}{2}\begin{pmatrix} 0 &amp; -i \\ i &amp; 0 \end{pmatrix}

and express \chi as a linear combination of them to determine the coefficients you need. In linear-algebra-speak, you want to change basis from the Sz basis to the Sy basis.

This is effectively what you always do to find probabilities of a measurement. You find the eigenstates of the observable, express the state in terms of those eigenstates, and calculate the probabilities by squaring the modulus of the coefficients.
i'm still going to have to take an expectation of something to get a probability...

do you know of a reference or something online i can use to learn how to do this? i have griffiths intro to QM textbook, but like i said it isn't helpful on this. due friday heh.
An expectation value just gives you an average. It doesn't give you a probability.
 
wow. thanks so much! :)
 
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