How does the doppler effect resolve the twin paradox?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the application of the Doppler effect to the twin paradox in special relativity, exploring how the perceived frequency of signals between two twins—one stationary on Earth and the other traveling to a star and back—affects their aging as measured by each twin. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical modeling related to the relativistic effects of time dilation and signal reception.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario where twin 1 sends flashes at intervals of t seconds, and proposes that the time experienced by twin 1 is related to the time experienced by twin 2 through the Lorentz factor (gamma), questioning how this is explained via the Doppler effect.
  • Another participant suggests reviewing a specific resource that discusses the Doppler effect in the context of the twin paradox, inviting further questions if clarification is needed.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about whether the Doppler shift fully explains the twin paradox but notes it highlights the differences in signal reception between the twins, detailing how twin 2 experiences a lower frequency of signals while traveling away and a higher frequency upon returning.
  • This participant calculates the total number of signals received by twin 2 during the trip, indicating that she receives more signals than she sent, leading her to conclude that twin 1 aged more.
  • From twin 1's perspective, the same Doppler shifts occur, but the timing of when signals are received is affected by the traveling twin's motion, resulting in a predominance of red-shifted signals until twin 2 is nearly home.
  • Another participant questions the sufficiency of the Doppler shift explanation, suggesting that the explanation provided aligns with existing literature on the topic.
  • A participant offers a link to a numerical example that illustrates the year-by-year observations of both twins using the relativistic Doppler equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the extent to which the Doppler effect explains the twin paradox, with some supporting its relevance while others remain uncertain about its sufficiency. The discussion does not reach a consensus on this matter.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various assumptions about signal timing and the effects of relative motion, but these assumptions are not fully resolved within the discussion. The mathematical steps involved in the Doppler calculations are also not exhaustively detailed.

Dennydont
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If you had twin 1 on the earth, and twin 2 fly to a star and back at a speed of v with the Earth and star separated by a distance L, twin 1 sends out flashes at intervals of t seconds (measured in his frame). Taking into consideration the numbers of redshifted and blueshifted flashes that the second twin receives, the time for T1 (twin 1) is equal to gamma*T2. How does one explain this using doppler effect?
 
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I'm not sure if the Doppler shift explains the twin paradox, but it does illustrate the difference between the two twins.

When twin 2 blasts off, she sees the signals from twin 1 Doppler shifted lower (they arrive less often that once every t seconds). The minute she turns around, she sees the signals from twin 1 Doppler shifted higher (they arrive more often than once every t seconds).

If twin 2 sends out N signals on the way out, and N on the way back, then she sends out a total of 2N signals. Because of the Doppler shifts, she receives N \frac{\sqrt{1-\frac{v}{c}}}{\sqrt{1+\frac{v}{c}}} signals on the way out from twin 1, and receives N \frac{\sqrt{1+\frac{v}{c}}}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v}{c}}} on the way back. So the total number she receives from twin 1 for the whole trip is:
N \frac{\sqrt{1-\frac{v}{c}}}{\sqrt{1+\frac{v}{c}}} + N \frac{\sqrt{1+\frac{v}{c}}}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v}{c}}} = 2N \frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}} > 2N.

So the traveling twin receives more signals than she sent, so she concludes that the stay-at-home twin aged more.

If you look at it from the point of view of the stay-at-home twin, it's not exactly the same. It's still true that he sees the signals from twin 2 Doppler-shifted lower during the outward journey, and Doppler-shifted higher during the return journey. But the difference is that the stay-at-home twin doesn't see the signals from the traveling twin until long after the traveling twin turns around. That's because, it takes time for those blue-shifted signals to reach Earth, and in that time, the traveling twin is also traveling toward Earth. So by the time the signals reach Earth, the traveling twin is almost home. So the stay-at-home twin doesn't see half red-shifted signals and half blue-shifted signals; he sees mostly red-shifted signals and then a very brief time of blue-shifted signals.
 
stevendaryl said:
I'm not sure if the Doppler shift explains the twin paradox

The rest of your post is the explanation; it's the same explanation that's given in the Usenet Physics FAQ article that Nugatory linked to.
 

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