How electric field lines going out from surface is zero?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of electric field lines in relation to closed surfaces, specifically addressing why electric field lines emanating from a surface that does not enclose charge are considered zero, while questioning the case for a spherical surface that does enclose charge. The scope includes conceptual clarification and technical reasoning regarding electric field lines and flux.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the instructor's explanation regarding electric field lines not enclosing charge, suggesting that the same reasoning should apply to a spherical surface that does enclose charge.
  • Another participant provides a method to determine whether electric field lines are going out or in based on the dot product of the electric field and the area vector, stating that positive values indicate lines leaving the surface.
  • A participant challenges the interpretation of the condition where the dot product equals zero, arguing that it should indicate lines leaving the surface, while another clarifies that at that point, the line neither leaves nor enters the surface.
  • There is a discussion about the orientation of the area vector and its relation to the electric field lines, with one participant suggesting that if the area vector is nearly parallel to the electric field line, the condition of zero may not hold.
  • One participant expresses gratitude for the clarification received during the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the conditions under which electric field lines are considered to be leaving or entering a closed surface. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the application of these conditions to different scenarios.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential ambiguities in the definitions and conditions applied to electric field lines and their relationship to surface flux, particularly in cases where the electric field is zero at specific points.

gracy
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in the video above the instructor explains from time 8:22 to 8:55 that how and why electric field lines going out from the surface which do not enclose charge is zero but I don't understand then why not electric field lines going out from the spherical surface ( enclosing charge) is zero.Because by applying what the instructor said in this case also ,electric field lines going out comes out to be zero.

el.png
 
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Here is the correct way to determine whether an electric field line at a particular point ##\mathbf{r}## is considered to be "going out" or "going in":
- if ##\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) \cdot d\mathbf{a} > 0##, the electric field line at this point is leaving the closed surface
- if ##\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) \cdot d\mathbf{a} < 0##, the electric field line at this point is going inside the closed surface
- if ##\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) \cdot d\mathbf{a} = 0##, the electric field line at this point grazes the surface, it doesn't count in the flux traversing the surface
The surface element ##d\mathbf{a}## is by convention taken to be directed outward from the closed surface.
In your picture, it's obvious that the quantity ##\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) \cdot d\mathbf{a}## is positive at all points in the spherical surface.
 
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But applying what you said
area vector.png

blue_leaf77 said:
if E(r)⋅da=0\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) \cdot d\mathbf{a} = 0, the electric field line at this point grazes the surface, it doesn't count in the flux traversing the surface
but it should be leaving the closed surface
blue_leaf77 said:
if E(r)⋅da>0\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) \cdot d\mathbf{a} > 0, the electric field line at this point is leaving the closed surface
so
blue_leaf77 said:
if E(r)⋅da>0
but in my case it is
blue_leaf77 said:
E(r)⋅da=0
 
gracy said:
but it should be leaving the closed surface
At that exact point where ##\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) \cdot d\mathbf{a} = 0##, the line does not leave nor enter the surface. If you keep tracing this line you may find it enter or leave the surface at another point.
gracy said:
but in my case it is
Are you referring to your last picture, with ##d\mathbf{a}## denoted by that area vector to the right? That vector looks almost parallel with the electric field line at the same point, doesn't it? E(r)⋅da=0 cannot be zero then.
 
Last edited:
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I Understand now.Thanks a lot.Really really helpful.
 

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