Programs How Feasible Is It? Changing English major to Physics major

[solisspirit]

Hi guys. I'm an education major. I'm about to transfer to a university where I was planning on getting my undergraduate degree in education with a concentration in English. However, both my uncle and my dad were great at math. My uncle was accepted into a highly prestigious college for technology (back in the 50's), but turned it down because his mother wanted him to join the army instead. He fought in the Vietnam War and came back to join the University of Florida, where he received his engineering degree. He also worked for what is now known as Lockheed Martin.

Recently, I've been thinking seriously about a physics degree. I've always been interested in the stars, the origins of the universe, NASA, etc. and even have memories of walking in the big warehouses, where they would be building parts of the space shuttle (there would be big curtains that blocked most of it off, but in other paces you could walk inside of them). This was when I was around 5 or 6 and I got to go to work with my father a few times. It's always been on my mind and, until the present day, I never really took it serious. I don't know why.

I grew up in a rather unorthodox way - in that, I didn't go to college right after high school. I wanted success without the need for higher education. Three years ago I went back to college, now I'm 34, and I'm serious about changing my major to physics. I have a family with two kids, and a wife, but I don't do much else aside from that. I understand that math will be a challenge, but a challenge I'm willing to accept. When I was taking my math courses before I was usually the first one to finish my exams in test and, last test I remember, made a 97. Most of everyone in the same class didn't do so well. So, I know I'm capable.

My greatest challenge right now is accepting the challenge completely, i.e. in other words, making the decision to pursue the path and changing my major. Just wanted to get advice or thoughts from the community. Thanks.

 

[member 392791]

I'm not sure what your motives are as far as getting an education, but if you are doing this primarily to be able to be in a better financial status to support your family better, you might want to look into engineering.

 

[solisspirit]

Oh no, I don't really care about the money. I'm more interested in cosmology, quantum physics, etc. My education major was originally for teaching, so if for no other reason, I could teach later on. I basically just have an honest approach to it.

 

[1MileCrash]

If you want it, go for it.

But be prepared, the math will be a challenge, for anyone. Unless your 97 you spoke of was in partial differential equations, it literally means nothing in regards to the math curriculum of a physics major. I know many people who aced trig, or calculus 1 & 2 that were just not cut out for other courses.

Also, be prepared to spend a long time learning about things in physics you may not find particularly interesting at the beginning.

It's like night and day to go from a English/education to something like physics, and by "night and day" I mean a "swift kick to the teeth."

What you may want to do to is find a good textbook for a (physics major's) introductory physics course and try observing the kind of things you'd be doing. You generally need around Calc 2 for the beginning physics courses, but that probably won't make the problems in the book unsolvable. I think that would go a long way in helping you make the decision/commitment.

 

[R136a1]

When is the last time you seriously did math? Depending on that, you might want to review a lot of high school mathematics. I recommend the excellent book "basic mathematics" by Lang. The book contains everything you need before starting calculus. So work through it, and do the exercises. If you do alright, then you're in a far better position to go for a physics major.

 

[ZapperZ]

Oh no, I don't really care about the money. I'm more interested in cosmology, quantum physics, etc. My education major was originally for teaching, so if for no other reason, I could teach later on. I basically just have an honest approach to it.

You never mentioned anything about your career goal. Why are you hoping to do with your physics degree? Are you aiming to stop after you get your undergraduate degree?

Zz.

 

[Forensics]

I would suggest you do what I did and pick up college textbooks for some of the mid to high level classes in any degree you want to reach for.

That's how I decided on computer science, the higher level stuff is just extremely interesting to me and I love studying it.

 

[jbrussell93]

I would suggest you do what I did and pick up college textbooks for some of the mid to high level classes in any degree you want to reach for.

I do not suggest this. Particularly, not for physics. The upper division physics books will be heavily focused on mathematical methods so you will not get much out of it. I would suggest flipping through an intro book as others have mentioned.

What is the highest level math you've been exposed to and when?

 

[solisspirit]

"You never mentioned anything about your career goal. Why are you hoping to do with your physics degree? Are you aiming to stop after you get your undergraduate degree?"

Glad you asked that question. I've always been drawn to the universe and how it works. I watch quantum physics debates, watch the discovery channel Stephen Hawking movies, and I just have a childhoon affection for space and space related mechanisms. I always down-played myself saying "I won't be good enough or smart enough to be one of those guys"...but as I get older, I realize this mentality has kept me from being happy and doing exactly what I've really and truly wanted to do since I was a child. Am I the best at math? No. Will I take more hours to do the same math that say someone else will? Probably. But, this doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that I get to my goal no matter how many hours it takes me.

Now, what is my ultimate goal? This is more personal, because I'll start a whole deabte here if I say anything more. But, I want to uncover more to our universe. This idea that we have so much to discover is intriguing to me. Unlike things we've already discovered, space if the final frontier, and I want to reach my hands through it to see what I can bring back to Earth and to our understanding. In a sense, just bringing that something to the table would be enough for me, i.e. my goal.

 

[solisspirit]

"When is the last time you seriously did math? Depending on that, you might want to review a lot of high school mathematics. I recommend the excellent book "basic mathematics" by Lang. The book contains everything you need before starting calculus. So work through it, and do the exercises. If you do alright, then you're in a far better position to go for a physics major."

Considering my major was education with a concentration in English, I only had to go to math 112 and haven't even gotten to cal yet. But, I will learn it again stage by stage in college. Since I was almost about to graduate with my associates in education, I will have extra credits after leaving my junior level college when I go to a university (and English is good for critical thinking, which can be helpful in physics I would imagine), but this is also setting me back another year, possibly a year and a half considering all I can take now is math. I've basically taken everything else I need. I signed up for my classes recently and was only able to sign up for two classes due to having everything else I needed. However, I'm also taking summer semester as well to get me up to par faster. Basically, in a year, I'll have three math courses covered. I think I have five or six to go before I can transfer.

 

[ZapperZ]

"You never mentioned anything about your career goal. Why are you hoping to do with your physics degree? Are you aiming to stop after you get your undergraduate degree?"

Glad you asked that question. I've always been drawn to the universe and how it works. I watch quantum physics debates, watch the discovery channel Stephen Hawking movies, and I just have a childhoon affection for space and space related mechanisms. I always down-played myself saying "I won't be good enough or smart enough to be one of those guys"...but as I get older, I realize this mentality has kept me from being happy and doing exactly what I've really and truly wanted to do since I was a child. Am I the best at math? No. Will I take more hours to do the same math that say someone else will? Probably. But, this doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that I get to my goal no matter how many hours it takes me.

Now, what is my ultimate goal? This is more personal, because I'll start a whole deabte here if I say anything more. But, I want to uncover more to our universe. This idea that we have so much to discover is intriguing to me. Unlike things we've already discovered, space if the final frontier, and I want to reach my hands through it to see what I can bring back to Earth and to our understanding. In a sense, just bringing that something to the table would be enough for me, i.e. my goal.

First of all, you should use the "quote" function in your post.

Secondly, you actually haven't said anything about your career goal. You stated what you wish to do, but not occupationally.

Based on what you wrote, you want to be a practicing physicist. If this is true, then I suggest that you read my "So You Want To Be A Physicist" essay.

Secondly, you need to evaluate if you are willing to spend 4 years of undergraduate education, 6 years of graduate school, 2-4 years of postdoctoral work, and then fight for an academic position or a position at a National Lab or research agency.

Lastly, I think you still have a very narrow, restricted view of what physics is, and that the view that you have on it will also restrict your employability. You have the same view of physics as a high school student or the general public who don't seem to know that physics isn't just the LHC or the Stephen Hawkings, but it is also your iPhone, your MRI, the Andre Geims and the Phil Andersons.

Zz.

 

[solisspirit]

Secondly, you actually haven't said anything about your career goal. You stated what you wish to do, but not occupationally.

Occupationally, I'm not sure. I rely on the progressive revelation that my years of education might lead me to. I rely on teachers and professors to help encourage me and point me in the right direction. And, eventually, maybe I will find out what exactly that is. I must note that I live in Alabama right in Huntsville where there's the Redstone Arsenal, Lockheed Martin, and various other big companies that I might end of working for.

Secondly, you need to evaluate if you are willing to spend 4 years of undergraduate education, 6 years of graduate school, 2-4 years of postdoctoral work, and then fight for an academic position or a position at a National Lab or research agency.

I may be willing to do this altogether, but not all at once. I know it's possible to get a job with a bachelors degree, though I may or may not be doing exactly what I want to do at first. And, I'm fine with this. Many engineering jobs are available to physics majors.

As for what physics is, I think you're right in some sense, but what's wrong with having a high-school mentality of the subject? Surely, you too had this idea as a student at some point?

 

[solisspirit]

Where is your essay located, Zappers?

 

[Seydlitz]

Where is your essay located, Zappers?

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=240792

 

[ZapperZ]

Where is your essay located, Zappers?

Zz.

 

[solisspirit]

Thanks. I find it insightful.

 

[caldweab]

The problem with a high school mentality is you have a family. Not saying you can't do something you enjoy but at the same time when you got married and had kids you made the decision to put them before your personal endeavors. That means you should be looking for ways to better provide, not wasting time and resources on a degree that you have a very narrow view of, and worse you don't even have a slight idea of what kind of employment you will be able to pursue. What makes you think those big companies will hire a physics major over a well qualified engineer at the same level. You don't even plan to get a PhD at this point, which means you won't be doing any research, anywhere. It would make a lot more sense to get a more marketable degree that relates to the topics you enjoy in physics and then shoot for companies or labs that deal with those topics. Even if you can't work with those topics directly after your bachelors, you'll still have an employable degree to use while working on more advanced education

 

[solisspirit]

What makes you think those big companies will hire a physics major over a well qualified engineer at the same level.

Well, the way I understand it is that physics majors can do engineering jobs, whereas engineers cannot do the jobs of physicist. Also, a physics degree can be lucrative and adapt to many professions.

The problem with a high school mentality is you have a family. Not saying you can't do something you enjoy but at the same time when you got married and had kids you made the decision to put them before your personal endeavors.

Post hoc fallacy. Me having a family has zero effect on my getting a degree. Before considering a degree in physics, I was majoring in education - still in school. I also work, as well, and take care of my family. I really don't know where this notion that I can't get a degree in physics in good consciousness because I have a family comes from. The time is takes me to read through 45 pages of Biblical print style literature will take me just as much time to cover as it would for me to cover my math homework, even with a math lab.

As for the employment, nowadays you can aim for something, but nine times out of ten you don't do what you planned on doing, so I don't make plans. I simply hope for something I want to do. I hope I can be a theoretical physicist someday, but I also understand this will take much longer to do, so in the meantime I have to let my options tell me what I can do while I'm getting my graduate degree.

 

[lisab]

Well, the way I understand it is that physics majors can do engineering jobs, whereas engineers cannot do the jobs of physicist. Also, a physics degree can be lucrative and adapt to many professions.

Don't make the assumption that engineering jobs are easy to get with a physics degree - it ain't necessarily so. Most hiring managers have no idea about the skill set of a physics major, so if you manage to get a first interview you have a big marketing hurdle that engineers don't have.

And there are *lots* of skills engineers have that physics majors don't. I'm sure the engineers here will be happy to elaborate.

 

[ZapperZ]

To add to what lisab stated, this is especially true if you have a mindset of pursuing to "... be a theoretical physicist someday... ". It means that your undergrad coursework will not have as much experimental work as part of your electives as someone who is more experimentally inclined. You might also not be involved in research projects or summer work that have to do more with experiments.

This makes you to be even LESS desirable for engineering consideration, because you have less tangible skills that many engineering companies are looking for.

Zz.

 

[jesse73]

Don't make the assumption that engineering jobs are easy to get with a physics degree - it ain't necessarily so. Most hiring managers have no idea about the skill set of a physics major, so if you manage to get a first interview you have a big marketing hurdle that engineers don't have.

And there are *lots* of skills engineers have that physics majors don't. I'm sure the engineers here will be happy to elaborate.

Tack another point in the column for having a HS mindset about physics

 

[Mark44]

Well, the way I understand it is that physics majors can do engineering jobs, whereas engineers cannot do the jobs of physicist.

I'm neither an engineer nor a physicist, but I would submit that there are many things that engineers do that physicists don't have the training to do.

Also, a physics degree can be lucrative and adapt to many professions.



Post hoc fallacy. Me having a family has zero effect on my getting a degree. Before considering a degree in physics, I was majoring in education - still in school. I also work, as well, and take care of my family. I really don't know where this notion that I can't get a degree in physics in good consciousness because I have a family comes from. The time is takes me to read through 45 pages of Biblical print style literature will take me just as much time to cover as it would for me to cover my math homework, even with a math lab.

As academic disciplines, education and physics are vastly different. You might be able to read through 45 pages of whatever you're currently reading in a short period of time, but it's completely naive to think that you can do the same with physics or mathematics. Physics and math textbooks are an order of magnitude more dense in how much information is packed into them.

As for the employment, nowadays you can aim for something, but nine times out of ten you don't do what you planned on doing, so I don't make plans. I simply hope for something I want to do.

Good luck with that. Without some sort of plan, your chances of achieving what you want are much less than one in ten. Hoping for something to happen is not a good strategy.

I hope I can be a theoretical physicist someday, but I also understand this will take much longer to do, so in the meantime I have to let my options tell me what I can do while I'm getting my graduate degree.

 

[Student100]

Tack another point in the column for having a HS mindset about physics

Completely unnecessary comment that basically contributed nothing to the thread.


Solisspiit you would do well to listen to some of the great advice offered here, if you're dead set on this path come hell or high water, make sure you take all the math and intro to physics at junior college and decide if this is for you before you transfer. Many universities won't let you change majors once you transfer.

 

[solisspirit]

Student, I appreciate your class and fair honesty. I don't think this forum has been all that helpful, aside from offering a strange set of opinions to someone that is honestly seeking both positive and negative advice. I was offered only negative results with absolutely zero room for hope, which is quite sad (not for me, but for anyone with such a dim view on reality).

I was hoping by coming here I would get helpful advice, but the only thing I've received is a bad taste in my mouth from the community of physics, at least in this forum. For the record, I have talked to both students and professors regarding job opportunities and outlook, and the information I provided were points from them, not from me, as I don't know myself. I'm not sure if most of the comments here are coming from pessimist or just very outdated professionals. In any case, thanks for nothing.

 

[Bandersnatch]

By Jove, solisspirit, you're almost an exact copy of myself! I'm currently finishing my BA in English teaching(as a foreign language, though), am also on the wrong side of 30, and wish to get that physics degree I've always wanted. Someday.

I think I get your mindset -- and apologies if I go too far trying to read your mind -- which is just wanting to do what makes you happy, however cliche that may sound. Matters of frugality and career prospects are of secondary importance. In a way, it's a quest for an elaborate hobby, that just might have the advantage of also being a job.

Unlike you, I did study physics for a couple years soon after high school(before flunking out due to the vagaries of youth). What I think I can say based on that, as well as my recent trying to get back into it, is that the kind of focused effort required by uni-level maths is much different from what you may encounter in the humanities and your everyday life. It's not necessary more difficult, but it's a different kind of difficult. It's as if you were trying to use a muscle you didn't even know you had, or which had atrophied long ago.
Getting there will require lots of work, I think I can safely say. Work that younger people who hadn't been long out of the loop math-wise, will find relatively easy.

I'm not sure if I may espouse any advice, being in so similar a situation, but if I did, then it'd be to get a bunch of math books and try to gauge your determination by trying to plow through at least one of them.

Lastly, to encourage both you and myself, let me remind you that there's advantages to be found in our situation: the tumultous youth is past; some wisdom has, perhaps, arrived; we're somewhat settled in life, and can do stuff like this purely because we like it. It's just a matter of commitment, I believe. Good luck.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You asked a question. It's really not our fault if you don't like the answer.

You asked 'what's wrong with having a high-school mentality [a phrase I wouldn't have used, but it is what it is] of the subject?' If you're 14, nothing. If you're 34, a lot. The fact of the matter is that a BS in physics will not do what you expect it to do: it will not make you movre competitive for engineering jobs than engineers, and it will not teach you the secrets of the universe. You will, however, learn something about the hydrogen atom, the asymmetric top and spinning quadrupoles of charge.

 

[jesse73]

Completely unnecessary comment that basically contributed nothing to the thread.


Solisspiit you would do well to listen to some of the great advice offered here, if you're dead set on this path come hell or high water, make sure you take all the math and intro to physics at junior college and decide if this is for you before you transfer. Many universities won't let you change majors once you transfer.

I would let the mods mod. How does it not contribute anything other than it not agreeing with your viewpoint?

It was a comment confirming another posters insight which was meant to add weight to that comment.

OP--

As Vanadium pointed out just because it isn't what you want to hear doesn't mean we are at fault because it isn't a personal attack. The response wasnt even negative but rather about aligning expectations with the reality of experiences of people who have advanced degrees in physics. If your motivation was less grandiose like "I want to work on my problem solving skills while learning a bit about the physical world" a different response would have occurred.

Physics professors don't usually have the most accurate gauge of industry because many never have left academia. It isn't their fault because becoming a professor isn't something you accidentally fall into while working odd jobs.

This isn't for you in particular but all the other posters that will post a similar mindset in the future -->
How many people with grad degrees in physics do you need to tell you that the world doesn't follow the belief that "engineering is applied physics therefore physics degrees supersede engineering degrees".

or the other common physics forum belief
"I am going to try to become a physics professor and if that doesn't work I will just work a six figures finance job".

 

[solisspirit]

Bander, I appreciate your input. And no apology necessary, you're quite right.

There are variables here that this community doesn't know about, that would, otherwise known, reveal their error and misperception about me. What I've accumulated over the years is experience in the real world, and hard cold facts of life. I see students who have everything handed to them, then study limited amounts of time and go back to their video games. I'm not this guy. I realize my age plays an imperative role in my future, but this notion that because I'm 34 I'm somehow ineffective is ridiculous at it's very best. I don't know how many professors and students say things like "go after what you truly have a passion for, and don't listen to those that will try and bring you down. If you do something you love, you'll never work a day in your life". Yet, somehow, here everything is a black hole of disappointment. Not sure if the many years of math did this or just the disappointment in the job market. Either way, it's a horrible mentality to have. I'm a realist, and I agree with being honest, but I refuse to settle for being a pessimist.

I told myself before taking on this career path that I would be doing a lot of homework, and spending many hours in the math lab, and I'm fully prepared mentally for the task. Needless to say, as it should be obvious, I wasn't born yesterday. Another variable here has to do with where I live. There are a ton of jobs in the engineering (software, computer), physics, and the like all around me, practically within a 20 minute reach from me. I went on the jobs search just to see and there are jobs for people with a physics degree, base level. In fact, they're even looking for people within their sophomore year of school to start interships. The jobs range from missle defense to just about anything, and some of them would even pay for my graduate work. The work is here in more ways than one, and the decision to take on either an engineering degree or a physics degree (which in many of these jobs was acceptable either way) where I live is highly promising. So, yea, it's a great idea.

Finally, both my father and my uncle were highly intelligent and great at math. My uncle helped work on the the second phase of the Saturn rocket that did the man on the moon, etc. He worked for Boeing, worked for NASA, and finally came to where I live now to work for Martin Marietta which is now Lockheed Martin. So, I'm perfectly within my right to think I have the mental faculties to fulfill what it is I want to do. Will I spend a few more hours a day working on my math than someone right out of high school? Possibly. Who cares? The fact of the matter is if you are willing to put the work in, and you are persistent, anything is possible. This is the road I'm taking. Thanks.

 

[jesse73]

and the decision to take on either an engineering degree or a physics degree (which in many of these jobs was acceptable either way) where I live is highly promising.

Engineering is a discipline in itself and it seems at least partially disrespectful to imply that you can learn their skills on the side or incidentally when getting a physics degree.

If you were also considering doing engineering to get an engineering job then I don't think many people would think that is unreasonable.

 

[solisspirit]

Well, I made it clear that I was open to where-ever my path leads me. Ultimately, I *want to do theoretical physics, but it's not what I'll be doing with a bachelor's, that's for sure. And I'll need to start working when I get my bachelor's in some paying field where I can utilize my knowledge so that I can pay for my graduate school, if it's not already being paid for through a company.

 

[WannabeNewton]

Do you even know what "theoretical physics" actually is? You keep saying "theoretical physics" but you don't seem to realize the difference in connotation of said term between laymen and physicists.

Clearly you didn't come here for advice. You came here for reassurance of a highly unstable change of career path and when you didn't get that reassurance you lashed out. If I had a dollar for every time I've seen a non-science major resort to this attitude on this forum...

 

[solisspirit]

No, I actually did come here for sound advice based on a fair approach, not a completely negative and condescending view that makes for bad conversation. Big difference. Maybe it's not those asking about the major but the person answering.

 

[B4ssHunter]

Solisspirit
basically the forum is advising you to take the reality pill , physics might be what you love , it might be your passion , your love , but marriage is very different from dating
you will have responsibilities , lots of responsibilities * which you seem ready to take * ,you will have long years to come of study ,you are probably not going to work just after a Bsc , you will have a difficult , yet enjoyable life if you enjoy problem solving * which is the main factor here , its not about KNOWING physics as much as its about Solving physics problems * , but most of all , which is most important , you don't know what future awaits you , who knows maybe it clicks , maybe you will get a fine physics job that is interesting , and maybe not , its all about chances and probability
anyway , my advice to you , if you want to know the secrets of the universe , all you need to know is to buy an online math course , or get yourself a couple of math books * all the way from scratch * and teach yourself what you need to know , however if BEING a theoritical physicist is all you want , then good luck with that , its a hard road , and you don't know what lies at its end , good luck with everything

 

[caldweab]

Bander, I appreciate your input. And no apology necessary, you're quite right.
There are variables here that this community doesn't know about, that would, otherwise known, reveal their error and misperception about me. What I've accumulated over the years is experience in the real world, and hard cold facts of life. I see students who have everything handed to them, then study limited amounts of time and go back to their video games. I'm not this guy. I realize my age plays an imperative role in my future, but this notion that because I'm 34 I'm somehow ineffective is ridiculous at it's very best. I don't know how many professors and students say things like "go after what you truly have a passion for, and don't listen to those that will try and bring you down. If you do something you love, you'll never work a day in your life". Yet, somehow, here everything is a black hole of disappointment. Not sure if the many years of math did this or just the disappointment in the job market. Either way, it's a horrible mentality to have. I'm a realist, and I agree with being honest, but I refuse to settle for being a pessimist.
I told myself before taking on this career path that I would be doing a lot of homework, and spending many hours in the math lab, and I'm fully prepared mentally for the task. Needless to say, as it should be obvious, I wasn't born yesterday. Another variable here has to do with where I live. There are a ton of jobs in the engineering (software, computer), physics, and the like all around me, practically within a 20 minute reach from me. I went on the jobs search just to see and there are jobs for people with a physics degree, base level. In fact, they're even looking for people within their sophomore year of school to start interships. The jobs range from missle defense to just about anything, and some of them would even pay for my graduate work. The work is here in more ways than one, and the decision to take on either an engineering degree or a physics degree (which in many of these jobs was acceptable either way) where I live is highly promising. So, yea, it's a great idea.
Finally, both my father and my uncle were highly intelligent and great at math. My uncle helped work on the the second phase of the Saturn rocket that did the man on the moon, etc. He worked for Boeing, worked for NASA, and finally came to where I live now to work for Martin Marietta which is now Lockheed Martin. So, I'm perfectly within my right to think I have the mental faculties to fulfill what it is I want to do. Will I spend a few more hours a day working on my math than someone right out of high school? Possibly. Who cares? The fact of the matter is if you are willing to put the work in, and you are persistent, anything is possible. This is the road I'm taking. Thanks.

I was not trying to be negative but it's the truth. I suspect you don't know very man physicist or you just have this elaborate idea of what a physics degree will offer you and it's just completely different from reality. First nobody questioned your intelligence or ability, I have a friend/classmate that just graduated with his BS in nuclear engineering he was 38. This friend also enjoyed physics which is why he picked up the minor, he also has a family. I don't care what degree or job you currently have, ultimately you are going to probably have to quit to further your education, do you not think it would be wise to leave a stable teaching career for another stable career with at least the same pay or hopefully better pay? You don't sound like an adult, you sound like a kid who doesn't know how to take criticism. The difference is I actually am an engineering major, nuclear engineering and our curriculum requires a lot of physics and mathematics. Believe me when I tell you, no matter how fast you can read 45 pages of literature you will not be reading through any physics or mathematics that fast. Those chapters while they often are not very long contain a lot of concepts and information that you have to put some time into really dissect and test your understanding of. Anybody can solve a problem out the back of the book, but the important thing is do you understand the concepts? Have you learned anything? Second point I want to make is you're completely off base thinking that because your father was good at mathematics and physics that you should be too, that is ridiculous. My uncle is good at computer science and developing applications, I assure you outside of Matlab I don't know anything about programming or computer science except the basics. Everybody has natural talents and things they are good at, so how can you assert that you are in your right to think you're good at mathematics and physics, because your father is good at it? Another point, I know plenty of physics majors who had this idea that they could get engineering jobs with their physics degree, after being unemployed years after graduation they have returned for engineering degrees... My professor and advisor has a bs in physics, a master of science in physics, a master of science in nuclear engineering and a PhD in nuclear engineering. Now why do you think that is? I'll tell you, he couldn't find a job to take care of his family, so he got something more employable. He has and still does research in nuclear engineering and physics but he has also been able to get a job to take care of his family.

 

[solisspirit]

I don't care what degree or job you currently have, ultimately you are going to probably have to quit to further your education, do you not think it would be wise to leave a stable teaching career for another stable career with at least the same pay or hopefully better pay?

I don't have a degree right now. I work and take care of my family as well as go to school. Is it hard? Of course. As I stated already, I'm ready for the challenge. I've seen women work three jobs, bud, just to get by. I've seen kids in other countries starve, and still work. I've seen perseverance in the worst scenarios. Then I think about my life and how blessed I am to live where I live and have the option to go to school. Unfortunately, this word "hard" is relative, and many kids in America (we rank 23 in the whole world, which isn't good) pretend like our education is so hard. No, it's not that it's so hard it's that we're just so used to easy things and we don't want to spend enough time doing our homework because we're so bogged down with video games and movies; media entertainment and non-sense. Rubbish.

I really don't feel like debating my career anymore. I made my decision.

 

[ZapperZ]

I really decided a while back to no longer participate in here, especially when you've expressed how little you value the responses you've gotten. I tend to stop caring when some is being ungrateful to the effort I've put in in trying to help. However, there is a clear lack of understanding of what was being conveyed here.

I can't speak for the motives of other responders in this thread. In MY case, what I had written on this thread was NEVER meant to stop or discourage you from doing whatever it is that you wanted to do. Rather, what I tried to do, and it is something that I've consistently tried to do when question like this comes up (and you are NOT the first to ask such a question), is to convey what I've written here:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=4603496&postcount=24

You also need to examined what it was that you were expecting to get when you ASKED your question on here. Were you expecting affirmation of what you wish to do? Or were you really sincere in finding out opinions on your plan?

In any case, I'm done. You're welcome to take the advice that I've given, or ignore them. And if we're playing the "age" card here, I'm about 10 days away from turning 52, and I've been either studying physics, or working in physics, ever since I was 18. I've seen enough students passing through to know quite a bit more of the reality of being a physicist and the challenges in pursuing such a career.

Zz.

 

[B4ssHunter]

I don't have a degree right now. I work and take care of my family as well as go to school. Is it hard? Of course. As I stated already, I'm ready for the challenge. I've seen women work three jobs, bud, just to get by. I've seen kids in other countries starve, and still work. I've seen perseverance in the worst scenarios. Then I think about my life and how blessed I am to live where I live and have the option to go to school. Unfortunately, this word "hard" is relative, and many kids in America (we rank 23 in the whole world, which isn't good) pretend like our education is so hard. No, it's not that it's so hard it's that we're just so used to easy things and we don't want to spend enough time doing our homework because we're so bogged down with video games and movies; media entertainment and non-sense. Rubbish.

I really don't feel like debating my career anymore. I made my decision.

dont just turn off your mind , nobody is trying to knock you off your choice , people here are trying to help you realize what your choice really is , in the end you are the one who's going to live it , the difficulty is not in studying , if you love physics you will love studying , its in the employment , that's it .
anyway if its really worth it , try to go through the job you're doing and the education you will be getting in parallel , do not waste one for the sake of the other , who knows maybe you will need that teacher job in the end , or maybe not , so always be ready

 

[WannabeNewton]

Unfortunately, this word "hard" is relative, and many kids in America (we rank 23 in the whole world, which isn't good) pretend like our education is so hard. No, it's not that it's so hard it's that we're just so used to easy things and we don't want to spend enough time doing our homework because we're so bogged down with video games and movies; media entertainment and non-sense. Rubbish.

Boy is reality going to hit you square in the face if you decide to study physics. Nobody "pretends" that physics is hard; it's just hard period. Seriously what do you think physics is?

Well good luck regardless.

 

[ZapperZ]

Ah, I found it!

I said that I wasn't going to continue in this thread, but I was wrecking my brain in trying to find where exactly I had read something similar, and I found it.

I am referring to this post by the OP:

Bander, I appreciate your input. And no apology necessary, you're quite right.

There are variables here that this community doesn't know about, that would, otherwise known, reveal their error and misperception about me. What I've accumulated over the years is experience in the real world, and hard cold facts of life. I see students who have everything handed to them, then study limited amounts of time and go back to their video games. I'm not this guy. I realize my age plays an imperative role in my future, but this notion that because I'm 34 I'm somehow ineffective is ridiculous at it's very best. I don't know how many professors and students say things like "go after what you truly have a passion for, and don't listen to those that will try and bring you down. If you do something you love, you'll never work a day in your life". Yet, somehow, here everything is a black hole of disappointment. Not sure if the many years of math did this or just the disappointment in the job market. Either way, it's a horrible mentality to have. I'm a realist, and I agree with being honest, but I refuse to settle for being a pessimist.

It is uncanny closed to what has been said before in this Science Career article that I posted here:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=4487035&postcount=186

There's A LOT to be learned from that Science article. Like I said elsewhere, we can only lead a horse to water...

Zz.

 

[solisspirit]

ZapperZ, I don't think you said anything too negative, but as a collective source of feedback, all I got was a pessimist view and a condescending attitude that was clearly not necessary. This was clear by Student110's comment calling another poster out on it, so it's not like I'm making this more than it is.

Like I said, I made my decision. I believe in going after what it is you want to do. It's actually quite an interesting story, because for so long everyone kept telling me going into a teaching degree with English was a dumb move, because there'd be no jobs and the pay is awful. I defended my degree then many times, and I still do. But now that I'm aiming for something more, and doing precisely what everyone told me to do, I get these results. It never ceases to amaze.

 

[joneiljack]

OP, after reading through every post here I can just say most of the people here were just trying to make you understand what you're up against.

- They challenged your reasoning behind your current ideas and expressed what problems you will most likely bump into (from their experience in their field).
- From their experience they gave you what they consider a realistic approach on how to go about doing it. (i.e. get some books first, see if you like doing it)

Now, given the tone, it can be easily interpreted as negative or pessimistic, but they never said "don't do it." They were simply telling you the difficulties you might encounter. In the end of course the choice is yours.

So instead of taking all the aspects of the replies which you might find "negative" or "pessimistic" I think a better and a more productive way is to just keep them in the back of your mind and use them to prepare yourself for what you might be facing. Because I assure you that their intention wasn't to put you down. (It would be quite the conspiracy that ~35 posts or so were dead set on putting you down). Ignore the tone, consider the issues they brought forth and think how you'd handle them if they are correct. You may or may not face them, obviously. (i.e. "if physics will be harder than I think it is, maybe I could take it slow, reduce some courses if need be")

To repeat myself: They just told you what they think about the difficulties you might encounter.

So of course you can follow your dreams! But being cautious about it is very important.

And nonetheless, good luck OP!

 

[nri]

Don't do this to yourself.

You'll spend 10 years in school studying Physics only to get a job that's not related in it. It's not worth it - no matter if you are in your 20s or 30s.

It's not matter of hard work. No matter how hard you work, if there are no jobs, you won't get one. In my field after 10 years of hard work you are a real deal, a professional who works in interesting projects and can earn money and when you are 40, you work as creative director for biggest companies doing coolest stuff. In physics after 10 years of schooling and 10 years of post-docking you don't have permanent job and make coffe as assistant professor. Forget about interesting projects. It's kinda pathetic.

You should go for engineering. It's the only way for you to work in sth related to physics.

 

[AlephZero]

but as a collective source of feedback, all I got was a pessimist view and a condescending attitude that was clearly not necessary.

Never forget Scott Adams' (the Dilbert cartoonist) definition: an optimist is a pessimist with no real world experience.

As for previous comments on physics and engineering, blaming everything on bean counters in HR is a nice way to sidestep the issue, but the reason my employers don't hire a physicist when they want an engineer is simple: we have had our fingers burned too many times before when we tried it. It's not just a matter of what they know - either should be smart enough to learn fast on the job. It's the different ways they have been taught to think. To caricature the situation, given something that doesn't work, a physicist wants to set up a research project to explore why it doesn't work, publish some papers about it, and get then funding to do some more research. An engineer just wants to fix it, and move on to the next job

 

[solisspirit]

Never forget Scott Adams' (the Dilbert cartoonist) definition: an optimist is a pessimist with no real world experience.

The issue here is Adams is a cartoon author. More importantly, however, I claimed to be a realist; the one that weighs the scale evenly with a combination of common sense and intelligibility. I would say this is the fair approach.

nri, I appreciate your approach. You're not only honest but claim to come from actual experience. At any rate, I suspect there are variables here that either you guys, being engineers don't get to experience or see, that physicist do. I did a little research the last few days on physics jobs, including statistics as well as the local job market for them, and not only are there jobs available with the requirements being interchanged between a degree in math, physics, or engineering, but there are also jobs for people with just a B.A. in physics.

I also found a video that I've not completely finished watching as it's nearly an hour long, but watched enough to see that the statistics from official and reputable research groups show the jobs are there and that physicist degree holders go on to hold jobs for computer engineering, as well as various other things. So, what I think is happening here is maybe some of you are not up to date on current statistics and the job market. In my local area, I could go apply for a physics job tomorrow, as they are looking for these degrees. There are many engineers and I think with a degree in physics I'll be able to stand out.

 

[ModusPwnd]

I did a little research the last few days on physics jobs, including statistics as well as the local job market for them, and not only are there jobs available with the requirements being interchanged between a degree in math, physics, or engineering, but there are also jobs for people with just a B.A. in physics.

...

So, what I think is happening here is maybe some of you are not up to date on current statistics and the job market. In my local area, I could go apply for a physics job tomorrow, as they are looking for these degrees. There are many engineers and I think with a degree in physics I'll be able to stand out.

I would love to know specifically what companies or places you are talking about. I've been looking for a tech job with my two physics degrees for over two years now. I've never even been able to get an interview. I am not a genius nor am I a PhD, but I don't consider myself a complete slouch. I graduated with honors, got As in all but one physics class, I did research as a grad and undergrad, attended conferences, etc. I apply to positions ranging from Master's required/PhD preferred to only some college necessary. Here is one I applied to last month,

https://microchip.tms.hrdepartment....t-Engineering-Tech-I-ImplantUS-Gresham-Oregon

I think that I could excel at that job and I think that my resume speaks to this. But I never even got a call, and the job is still listed...

After two years of never even getting a call back, I have to do something different or I will never get a technical job. I'm now taking classes again working towards a BS in electrical engineering.

This is just my experience, but I do not think its that out of the ordinary. Keeping in touch with my classmates from undergrad and grad school, those without PhDs have a hard time getting any tech job at all. Some are doing things unrelated like IT or school teacher, many are doing things completely unrelated like truck driver and restaurant worker.

 

[solisspirit]

Here is one example in my area. Notice the major is interchangeable and doesn't matter whether you have an engineering degree, math degree, or physics degree.

https://ngc.taleo.net/careersection/ngc_pro/jobdetail.ftl?job=401131&src=JB-10200

Also, I've have heard before that when you have an advanced degree this is disqualify you for many jobs due to you being "over-qualified". I think general supervisors don't like someone higher than them working under them, because they can feel inferior to their own job. I don't plan on getting anything higher than a bachelor's until I set myself in a job firmly. Then I will pursue my masters.

 

[WannabeFeynman]

Will you be able to support your family financially while studying for 4 years, at the very least?

 

[ModusPwnd]

Here is one example in my area. Notice the major is interchangeable and doesn't matter whether you have an engineering degree, math degree, or physics degree.

https://ngc.taleo.net/careersection/ngc_pro/jobdetail.ftl?job=401131&src=JB-10200

Also, I've have heard before that when you have an advanced degree this is disqualify you for many jobs due to you being "over-qualified". I think general supervisors don't like someone higher than them working under them, because they can feel inferior to their own job. I don't plan on getting anything higher than a bachelor's until I set myself in a job firmly. Then I will pursue my masters.

Yea, but that is not an entry level position either. It requires 5 years of experience. I'll still apply for it though, thanks for the link.

I have applied to places by listing both my masters and BS, I have also applied with only my BS on my resume with the same thoughts you mentioned here. I have also applied to jobs with no degree on my resume at all, and these are the jobs I actually get interviews for. They are not tech jobs, but working in a restaurant does pay the bills.

 

[heatengine516]

Yes we don't like to be pigeonholed which is what makes a physics degree so enticing. But if you take a look at the typical physics curriculum at most universities(unless it is engineering physics, or you are able to pick up some kind of engineering minor) are there any courses that cover any topics in, say, computer engineering? Typically not.

The typical undergraduate curriculum for physics is classical mechanics, electricity and magnetism, thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, etc. These course cover the most basic, general representation of the theories therein. None of them cover VLSI design or RF or signal processing, or vehicle control systems.

With this in mind, is it logical to assume that someone with a physics degree would be qualified for any positions in engineering such as those that deal with the topics above WITHOUT rigorous on-the-job training IF it is provided (in most postings I've seen, usually not)?

 

[solisspirit]

Will you be able to support your family financially while studying for 4 years, at the very least?

Absolutely. That's what I'm doing now. Furthermore, I won't need four years. I've already managed to acquire 42 credit hours, some of which won't count because they are in a different major program of study, but most of them will.