How Is the Anticommutator Derived in SU(3) Algebra?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the derivation of the anticommutator in the context of SU(3) algebra, exploring the relationships between various invariant tensors and the properties of the algebra. Participants examine the mathematical expressions and identities related to the generators of the algebra, including the normalization conventions and the implications for the anticommutator.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation involving the normalization of the SU(3) algebra and expresses confusion about the anticommutator's formulation.
  • Another participant challenges the assertion that the product of two generators can be expressed as a scalar times the Kronecker delta, indicating a misunderstanding in the approach.
  • A later reply clarifies the definitions of the invariant tensors used in SU(3) and proposes a method to express the anticommutator in terms of these tensors.
  • One participant discusses the normalization of generators and the implications for the quadratic Casimir operator, questioning how to derive the specific trace relation for the fundamental representation of SU(3).
  • Another participant emphasizes the distinction between normalization of generators and the Dynkin index, providing a detailed explanation of the quadratic Casimir and its relationship to the trace of generators.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct formulation of the anticommutator and the properties of the generators. There is no consensus on the derivation methods or the implications of the trace relations, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved mathematical steps regarding the derivation of the anticommutator and the specific trace relations for the generators. The discussion also highlights dependencies on definitions of invariant tensors and normalization conventions.

CAF123
Gold Member
Messages
2,918
Reaction score
87
'Using the following normalization in the su(3) algebra ##[\lambda_i, \lambda_j] = 2if_{ijk}\lambda_k##, we see that ##g_{ij} = 4f_{ikl}f_{jkl} = 12 \delta_{ij}## and, by expanding the anticommutator in invariant tensors, we have further that $$\left\{\lambda_i, \lambda_j\right\} = \frac{4}{3}\delta_{ij} + 2d_{ijk}\lambda_k.$$
The first statement about ##g_{ij}## I understand but how did the one about the anticommutator come about?
I can reexpress ##\left\{\lambda_i, \lambda_j\right\} = [\lambda_i, \lambda_j] + 2 \lambda_j \lambda_i = 2if_{ijk}\lambda_k + 2 \lambda_j \lambda_i##. Now, ##\lambda_j \lambda_i## is a second rank tensor so can be written as ##a \delta_{ij}##, for some a. I was thinking I could then consider a single case to determine a (i.e i=j=1) but this didn't work.

Any tips would be great!

Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You are incorrect to say that ##\lambda_j \lambda_i## can be written as ##a \delta_{i j}##, which explains why your approach didn't work. Unfortunately, I don't know how to prove your identity. What is ##d_{i j k}##?
 
Hi Jackadsa,
Jackadsa said:
You are incorrect to say that ##\lambda_j \lambda_i## can be written as ##a \delta_{i j}##, which explains why your approach didn't work. Unfortunately, I don't know how to prove your identity. What is ##d_{i j k}##?
Yup, I saw that I was incorrect in that after I posted my thread. ##\delta_{ij}## and ##d_{ijk}## are supposed to be the two invariant tensors for SU(3). In my notes it also says that ##d_{ijk} = \frac{1}{4}\text{Tr} \lambda_i \left\{\lambda_j, \lambda_k\right\}##, so I guess I can use this fact. So then $$d_{ijk} = \frac{1}{4}\text{Tr} \lambda_i ([\lambda_j, \lambda_k] + 2 \lambda_k \lambda_{\ell}) = \frac{1}{4} \text{Tr} \lambda_i (2if_{jk \ell }\lambda_{\ell} + 2 \lambda_k \lambda_{j}) = \frac{i}{2} f_{jk\ell}\text{Tr} \lambda_i \lambda_{\ell} + \frac{1}{2}\text{Tr} (\lambda_i \lambda_k \lambda_j)$$ using the given normalisation of the algebra. Any ideas how to continue?

Thanks!
 
Any n \times n hermitian matrix M can be expanded in terms of the n \times n hermitian traceless matrices \lambda^{a} , a = 1,2, \cdots , n^{2}-1, and the n \times n identity matrix I_{n} as follow
<br /> M = \frac{1}{n} \mbox{Tr}(M) \ I_{n} + \frac{1}{2} \sum_{c=1}^{n^{2}-1} \mbox{Tr}(M \lambda^{c}) \ \lambda^{c} . \ \ \ (1)<br />
Now, take M = \{ \lambda^{a} \ , \lambda^{b} \} and define the symmetric invariant tensor
d^{abc} \equiv \frac{1}{4}\mbox{Tr}\left( \{ \lambda^{a} \ , \lambda^{b} \} \lambda^{c} \right) . With the \lambda’s normalized according to \mbox{Tr}(\lambda^{a}\lambda^{b}) = 2 \delta^{ab}, equation (1) becomes
\{\lambda^{a} , \lambda^{b} \} = \frac{4}{n} \delta^{ab} \ I_{n} + 2 d^{abc} \lambda^{c} .
Adding this to the algebra [\lambda^{a} , \lambda^{b}] = 2 i f^{abc} \lambda^{c}, and multiplying by another \lambda, you get
\lambda^{a} \lambda^{b} \lambda^{e} = \frac{2}{n} \delta^{ab} \lambda^{e} + (i f^{abc} + d^{abc} ) \ \lambda^{c} \lambda^{e} . Taking the trace, you get
\frac{1}{2} \mbox{Tr} (\lambda^{a} \lambda^{b} \lambda^{c}) = i f^{abc} + d^{abc} .
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: CAF123
Hi samalkhaiat,
samalkhaiat said:
... With the \lambda’s normalized according to \mbox{Tr}(\lambda^{a}\lambda^{b}) = 2 \delta^{ab}...
I see, thanks. The only thing I didn't understand was this statement above^^. In general for any irreducible representation we have that ##\text{Tr}T_a T_b = C(R) \delta_{ab}## where ##C(R)## is the Casimir of the representation. In this case, the ##\lambda_a## constitute the fundamental representation for SU(3) so are indeed irreducible. I am just not sure how to get ##\text{Tr}\lambda_i \lambda_j = 2\delta_{ij}##, i.e showing the casimir of the defining rep of SU(3) is 2. Any ideas on this?

I think I could also obtain the result by writing ##\left\{\lambda_i, \lambda_j\right\} = a\delta_{ij} + b d_{ijk}\lambda_k##, which computing some traces gives me a and b.
Thanks.
 
Don’t confuse normalization (i.e., orthogonal transformation plus scalling) of generators with the Dynkin’s index of irreducible representations.
The quadratic Casmir of Lie algebra is given by
C_{2}(r) = g^{ab} \ t^{(r)}_{a} \ t^{(r)}_{b} = d_{(r)} \ I_{r} where d_{r} is a representation-dependent number called the Dynkin’s index, and I_{r} is the identity matrix in the irreducible representation, i.e., \mbox{Tr}(I_{r}) is the dimension of the representation space \mbox{dim}(r). Taking the trace, you get g^{ab} \ \mbox{Tr}(t^{(r)}_{a} \ t^{(r)}_{b}) = d_{(r)} \ \mbox{dim}(r) . In the Adjoint representation, you can normalize the generators A_{a} so that \mbox{Tr}(A_{a} \ A_{b}) = g_{ab}. So, for any Lie algebra you have g^{ab} \ g_{ab} = d_{A} \ \mbox{dim}(A) , \ \ \Rightarrow \ \ d_{A} = 1. This is because g^{ab}g_{ab} = \delta^{c}_{c} = \mbox{dim}(A).

For SU(n) and SO(n) you can always make the following normalization convention \mbox{Tr}(T_{i} \ T_{j}) = \lambda \ \delta_{ij}, because \mbox{Tr}(T_{i} \ T_{j}) is a real symmetric matrix and can be diagonalized by taking an appropriate real linear combination of the generators, with diagonal coefficients set to a constant \lambda. With this basis of the algebra, the structure constants are given by C^{k}_{mn} = - \frac{i}{\lambda} \ \mbox{Tr}(T_{k}[T_{m},T_{n}]) , which implies that C^{k}_{mn} is totally antisymmetric in all three indices.
For example SU(2), where g^{ab}= \frac{1}{2}\delta^{ab}, we choose, for the Fundamental representation, \mbox{Tr}(T_{a}^{(F)} \ T_{b}^{(F)}) = \mbox{Tr}( \frac{\sigma_{a}}{2} \ \frac{\sigma_{b}}{2} )= \frac{1}{2} \ \delta_{ab} , So, d_{(F)} \ \mbox{dim}(F) = \frac{1}{2} \ \delta^{ab} \ \frac{1}{2} \ \delta_{ab} = \frac{3}{4} . From this we find the Dynkin’s index d_{(F)} = \frac{3}{8}, because \mbox{dim}(F) = 2.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 38 ·
2
Replies
38
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K