How many cycles until pressure decreases k times?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around determining the number of cycles required for the pressure in a gas vessel to decrease by a factor of k when a specific volume dV is pumped out in each cycle. The initial approach uses the ideal gas law, leading to the equation x = ln(1/k)/ln(1-dV/V), which suggests a decrease in the number of moles of gas after each cycle. However, the correct formulation is x = ln(k)/ln(1+dV/V), indicating a different assumption about the decrease in gas quantity per cycle. This alternative approach approximates the relationship using the inverse of (1-dV/V) as (1+dV/V) for small dV. The discussion highlights the mathematical derivation and the assumptions made regarding the gas behavior during the pumping process.
Yegor
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Air pump is pumping out a gas from a vessel (vessel's volume is V).
After each cycle i it pumps out dV.
Gas is ideal. T=Const.
After how much cycles pressure P will decrease k times?

Here is my work.

PV = nRT
Initially n=n(0)

After each cycle n decreases (1-dV/V) times.
So, after x cycles n(x)=n(0)(1-dV/V)^x
k=p(0)/p(x)=n(0)/n(x)
n(x)/n(0)=(1-dV/V)^x
So x =ln(1/k)/ln(1-dV/V)

But the answer is x=ln(k)/ln(1+dV/V)

As I understand, they assume that after each cycle n decreases 1/(1+dV/V) times. In this way i really receive x=ln(k)/ln(1+dV/V)
I don't understand it. Help me please.
 
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Has anybody any ideas?
 
They have done some mathematics with x =ln(1/k)/ln(1-dV/V) to arrive at a more nice looking answer.

x= -ln (k) / ln (1- dV/V)
= ln (k) / ln [(1-dV/V)] ^-1

now, [(1-dV/V)] ^-1 = 1 + dV/V (approximately)

so, x = ln (k) / ln [(1+dV/V)
 
Each cycle corresponds to a T=const. process. (in another version of this problem the pumping process is very fast and a the transformation would correspond to an adiabatic process - all you have to do is to add the exponent \gamma to the equations below). After the first cycle the air volume increases from V to V+dV and the pressure decreases at p_1. You have
p_0\cdot V=p_1\cdot (V+dV)
After the first cycle, the pump takes out the air from dV, and you get again
p_1=p_0 \frac{V}{V+dv}
In the second cycle,
p_1\cdot V=p_2\cdot (V+dV)
and
p_2=p_1 \frac{V}{V+dv}=p_0 \frac{V^2}{(V+dv)^2}

and so on...

p_n=p_{n-1} \frac{V}{V+dv}=p_0 \frac{V^n}{(V+dv)^n}
 
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