How much energy can be extracte from compressed water?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential energy extraction from compressed water, specifically examining a scenario involving 1 ton of water at 40 megapascals. Participants explore the kinetic energy that could be released when a valve is opened, considering both theoretical calculations and practical implications related to oceanography.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates that the energy released upon opening a valve could be approximately 0.36 MJ, with part of this being kinetic energy, based on the compressibility of water and the change in volume.
  • Another participant discusses the implications of ocean water compression at depths of 4 km, noting that the water is compressed by 1.8% and suggesting a method to extract energy from this compressed water.
  • This second participant presents a calculation for the energy required to raise the compressed water, arriving at a similar energy value of approximately 0.353 MJ, while acknowledging that this does not account for friction or drag.
  • There is a consensus that energy cannot be continuously extracted from the ocean, as the thermodynamics indicate that energy is conserved in this process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the calculated energy values and the limitations of energy extraction from compressed water. However, there are differing perspectives on the practical application and implications of these calculations, particularly regarding the feasibility of energy extraction from deep ocean water.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the compressibility of water and the specific conditions under which energy extraction is considered. There are unresolved aspects regarding the efficiency of energy extraction methods and the impact of external factors such as friction and drag.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying fluid dynamics, oceanography, energy extraction methods, and thermodynamics.

antonima
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Say I have 1 ton of compressed water at 40 mega pascals, IE its volume is only 982 liters. At standard temperature and pressure, how much kinetic energy will flow out of this system if a valve is opened?
 
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Welcome to PF, antonima! :smile:

Let's see.

I think we're talking about a release of 0.36 MJ in energy, of which part will be kinetic energy.
The volume that comes out is 18 L (assuming no change in temperature).We would need the compressibility of water for this:
[tex]\beta = -{1 \over V} {\partial V \over \partial P}[/tex]

The change in volume (the water spewing out) is:
[tex]\Delta V = -\beta V \Delta P[/tex]

The energy that is released by the expansion to standard pressure is:
[tex]W = \int PdV = \int P \cdot -\beta V dP = -{1 \over 2} \beta V P^2 |_{P_1}^{P_2}[/tex]

At T=25 °C, we have:
β = 4.6 x 10-10 m2/N
V = 0.982 m3
P1 = 40 MPa
P2 = 100 kPa

This means W=0.36 MJ and ΔV=0.018 m3
 
Last edited:
Hi ILS!

.36 MJ. I like that!
See, I have been learning about oceanography and how water compresses in the deeper parts of the ocean. At 4 km in depth, or 40 MPa water is compressed by 1.8%. I was thinking that maybe it could be sealed in a container which would keep it pressurized and raised to extract energy from the deep ocean.

Funny enough, to raise this water would at the very minimum require
(buoyancy at top - buoyancy at bottom * 1/2) * gravity * height
(basically using mass*gravity*height)
(18*1/2*4000*9.81) = .353 MJ !
This is not counting friction, drag, or the energy required to raise the container which carries the water. It seems that the thermodynamics of this all works out so no energy is created, and energy cannot be continuously extracted from the ocean.

Your equation also agrees with the the pressure analysis. Pressure is just Newtons/meter squared. If water were to be a cube just short of 1 meter squared, it would expand ~1.8 cm to one side.
40,000,000 pascals *.5*.018 m = .36 MJ !
using
Force*distance
 
Nice that it fits! :)

And pity that we can't extract energy this way. :(
 

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