How Much Time Should Physics Undergrads Spend on School?

[Ryker]

So since I'm a freshman Physics undergrad, I was wondering how much time you spend (or spent, if you're done already) daily doing school-related stuff (lectures included). I sometimes see people here saying they study for up to 12 hours daily, but that just seems really excessive to me. And where I come from and from my first degree experience I have never heard of anyone studying that much, except for perhaps just before exams (as our system allowed cramming, instead of studying on a regular basis). But if you have to put in that much time, then it makes you kind of wonder if you're really fit for this. I currently put in around 8 hours per day, I'd say, and even that seems a lot to me. That's namely 55 - 60 hours per week, which is more than you average working week. I don't expect to cruise through my undergrad studies, and am willing to work hard, but would still like to get a perspective on this.

Apart from my fellow undergrads, I'm especially interested in what people like twofish, fasterthanjoao, lisab and others that now seem to lead balanced lives without feeling resentment towards their studies have to say.

P.S. And please no flaming and questioning my "dedication and commitment", as it isn't really about this, and also, if someone wants to live a balanced life, that doesn't mean he has no passion for anything. Well, on second thought, I do want opinions, and if you feel like flaming, flame on, as long as it gets things moving in the thread.

 

[Phyisab****]

I went through a period where I desperately wanted straight A's. Every time I got less than a perfect score on a physics exam (every time) I redoubled my efforts. I pretty much rolled out of bed and started working. The only other things I did were go to the gym once a day, shower, eat something fast like microwaved hot dogs, and watch tv once or twice a week (with a textbook in my hands).

I then transferred to a large state school for monetary reasons, and I work half as hard for the same grades, roughly 3.67, and I'm graduating in one month.

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

I went through a period where I desperately wanted straight A's. Every time I got less than a perfect score on a physics exam (every time) I redoubled my efforts. I pretty much rolled out of bed and started working. The only other things I did were go to the gym once a day, shower, eat something fast like microwaved hot dogs, and watch tv once or twice a week (with a textbook in my hands).

I then transferred to a large state school for monetary reasons, and I work half as hard for the same grades, roughly 3.67, and I'm graduating in one month.

This is the easy way to get burned out.

 

[Phyisab****]

If physics professors were worried about burning me out, they could have given me less work/higher grades

 

[xGAME-OVERx]

I am in my final year doing a Natural Sciences degree, and there have been weeks where I've worked from 9 am to about 11 pm every day. Eased off a bit now, still working 8+ per day though. The way I see it, I came to university to learn/study and that's what I'm going to do.

I'm hoping to move onto a theoretical physics master's at a better institution come September 2011, and I am utterly terrified that I won't be able to handle the step up from undergrad to postgrad. But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Oh, and in the run up to the last set of exams, my friend and I revised from 6am to about 9pm every day for over a month. I can understand that that's kinda excessive though.

 

[lisab]

I went part-time, and the number of classes I took in a quarter was completely dependent on my finances. So I can't answer the poll; it was set up for traditional students.

But a good rule of thumb: for every hour in lecture, 2 or 3 hours of studying. The actual time spent studying would often go up (especially for QM and E&M), but rarely down.

 

[discrete*]

I won't vote in the poll, because I'm not a physics major.

I will, however, say that as mathematics major, I spend (on average) 6-7 hours per day studying math or going to lectures. Of course, when there's an exam or something similar I'm giving more time to my studies.

 

[mateomy]

I was given some advice from someone who was already out of school, (Math Major) that went as said (in regards to Math/Physics), "You literally have to be thinking about this stuff all day, every day, live it and breathe it." I know that its easy to get burned out when you approach things with this attitude, but now I've worked myself into the phenomenon of feeling immensely guilty if I am not studying. And to be honest, I enjoy it. Its a liberating feeling waking up one day realizing you know more than the day before, even if its just an incremental increase.

But good sweet lord I am good at the self-guilting.

 

[Klockan3]

I went to the lectures, that's about it. There is of course always this nagging feeling that you should do more but you learn to live with it, mindless book grinding isn't fun nor productive in my opinion.

 

[Obis]

Mindless book grinding indeed is useless, however, mindful high quality book analysing is extremely useful.

 

[Klockan3]

Mindless book grinding indeed is useless, however, mindful high quality book analysing is extremely useful.

Tell me with a straight face that you can get out 8 hours of quality reading of theoretical texts each day... I can seldom go above half an hour without getting bored out of my mind. The moment you lose your curiosity when reading is the moment it starts being grinding and I think that continuing from that point hurts as much as it helps.

 

[JaWiB]

I tried to figure out how much time I spent on school as an undergrad and I realized I can't. It just never got to the point where I felt like I was spending too much time on school or that I didn't have time to do other things that I enjoy.

So far as a grad student, I find that classes are only slightly more time-consuming, with TA duties being the most significant increase in my workload. The biggest difference is that now I absolutely have to work with my classmates on homework, or I would be almost completely lost and probably failing. Looking back, I wish I had worked with my friends on homework more often as an undergrad. Even if you understand how to do the problems, you learn it much better by teaching other people, and when you get stuck on a problem you won't just sit there for an hour without getting anywhere. It's much more enjoyable too

 

[╔(σ_σ)╝]

I am surprised how much some people study. I guess they have too much time on their hands.

I am an engineering student and on average I spend 12-14 hrs a week studying. All that studying is distributed over the week and 65% of it is over the weekend. My week days are usually spent doing prelabs, labs, lab reports and programming assignments.

Keep in mind that I am taking 5 electrical engineering courses and Real Analysis a total of 6 course and I have religous engagements that limits my studying time over the weekends.

Most of my classes end after 5 so I am already tired from class and have to prepare for labs the next day. I study on the train on my way home and I try to make the most out of my study time by trying to understand everything I read so I don't have to re-read later on.

With that amount of studying, I am doing well enough to be on the deans list for the past two years. I am by no means a smart fellow either!

Most of the people I know who are doing well in school study more than I do but I doubt they can pull of 5hrs everyday with the way the engineering program is designed.

9hrs a day is on the high side during a regular week. For a midterm or exam it is okay but I don't know how you can sit down for that long everyday. I can only pull of about 7hrs a day of studying; anymore and my brains starts taking a nap.

 

[cristo]

But if you have to put in that much time, then it makes you kind of wonder if you're really fit for this. I currently put in around 8 hours per day, I'd say, and even that seems a lot to me. That's namely 55 - 60 hours per week, which is more than you average working week. I don't expect to cruise through my undergrad studies, and am willing to work hard, but would still like to get a perspective on this.

If you're working that much, then you can at least afford to give yourself the weekend off. University's meant to be fun, and you should certainly try and get a good balance between work and play.

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

If physics professors were worried about burning me out, they could have given me less work/higher grades

I don't see why they should worry, its your health on theirs.

 

[chill_factor]

wow I am amazed by the amount of work engineering, math and physics people have to do!

I played all day in biochemistry... first two years was party at night, roll out of bed at 5 PM to play games until the next party, go to class only for the admittedly numerous labs and tests, and still had a good GPA until 3 quarters ago! My studying was done purely over the weekends and before tests, and consisted of working problems I found interesting. Maybe 2 hours at a time max, 8 hours per weekend. Not counting lab reports though, those turned out to be a major time drain the day before they were due. That was when the "bio" part of biochemistry was as basic as calculate pH of amino acid...

Even year 3, when I had multiple labs and research, I was only spending 6 hours per day on school related things including lecture! Only when I got done with my physics, math and "real chemistry" classes and started going into the book grinding upper division biology classes, and the uninteresting money grab research project, did my grades start slipping bad since you can't get by in biology without actually reading the book =( Now I try to memorize but it feels like drinking formaldehyde.

Bottom line is, despite a not terrible GPA, my major didn't learn too much useful stuff, it didn't help that I had no wakeup call that just because GPA is good, it doesn't mean you know anything, got a clue only after my first job.

 

[Phyisab****]

One thing I've noticed is that sometimes it seems like I require a much deeper understanding of something to understand it. For example, one of my classmates has the correct answer to a question. So I assume they understood what they were doing, and start asking about their thought process, etc. It turns out, often they can't answer the questions which stood between me and answering the problem. In fact, they don't even understand why I'm asking the questions I am. Another way of saying what I mean is that I get bogged down in the details I suppose. I guess that contributes to why physics takes me so much time.

 

[p21bass]

It all really depended - some times, the understanding of the material came easily, so I didn't have to do much other than show up for class and spend maybe an hour on homework. Other times - the material was harder, so I had to spend quite a bit of time reading, working, and figuring out what I did wrong the first (or second, or third, in some cases) time around.

On average? I think it was probably about 8-12 study/homework hours per week per course. Most courses were 1 hour, 3 times a week, so yeah - about 2-3 homework hours per lecture hour.

 

[jemb]

I'm in the uk studying a degree in electrical and mechanical engineering. In my first year we had around 28 hrs of timetabled classes per week. This year (2nd) its around 22-23.

Usually I aim to do around 20 hrs per week on top of this of class preparation, tutorial questions, study groups with friends etc. Once that's all covered I spend time wih my girlfriend, go out with the sailing club, try to relax and enjoy myself!

 

[lisab]

One thing I've noticed is that sometimes it seems like I require a much deeper understanding of something to understand it. For example, one of my classmates has the correct answer to a question. So I assume they understood what they were doing, and start asking about their thought process, etc. It turns out, often they can't answer the questions which stood between me and answering the problem. In fact, they don't even understand why I'm asking the questions I am. Another way of saying what I mean is that I get bogged down in the details I suppose. I guess that contributes to why physics takes me so much time.

But those details can be so important to understanding! I remember talking to a "top" student once about a question that was on an exam we had just taken: "A single electron passes through a barrier that has a double slit. What is observed on the screen behind it?"

She was a real whiz, and could answer plug-and-chug questions with the best of them (much better than I could, for sure). But she didn't have that deeper understanding, and answered that question wrong.

 

[DrummingAtom]

But those details can be so important to understanding! I remember talking to a "top" student once about a question that was on an exam we had just taken: "A single electron passes through a barrier that has a double slit. What is observed on the screen behind it?"

She was a real whiz, and could answer plug-and-chug questions with the best of them (much better than I could, for sure). But she didn't have that deeper understanding, and answered that question wrong.

Oh no, I've been meaning to ask about this. This is a good description of what's been happening with me. On the exams I nail all the problem questions but get most of the concept questions wrong. I felt like it's ok because most people seem the opposite but lately it's been bugging me. The general consensus seemed that from doing enough problems you'd understand the concepts, but the kids that don't do any problems understand the concepts. So, how do you understand both?

 

[Dembadon]

Oh no, I've been meaning to ask about this. This is a good description of what's been happening with me. On the exams I nail all the problem questions but get most of the concept questions wrong. I felt like it's ok because most people seem the opposite but lately it's been bugging me. The general consensus seemed that from doing enough problems you'd understand the concepts, but the kids that don't do any problems understand the concepts. So, how do you understand both?

In mathematics:

Going to office hours with specific questions has worked well for me. The professor will help me work through the proofs/concepts with which I'm having trouble. I can't express how important office hours are if you're struggling with something. When you go to office hours, the professor gets to know you personally and is able to learn how you learn. S/he can then provide a more focused explanation based on your learning style, among other things.

 

[Klockan3]

Oh no, I've been meaning to ask about this. This is a good description of what's been happening with me. On the exams I nail all the problem questions but get most of the concept questions wrong. I felt like it's ok because most people seem the opposite but lately it's been bugging me. The general consensus seemed that from doing enough problems you'd understand the concepts, but the kids that don't do any problems understand the concepts. So, how do you understand both?

By thinking about what you calculate instead of copying formulas from the book. That question for example is about the wave/particle duality which tells you that although electrons behaves mostly like waves they are still inseparable particles so you will only observe a single hit on the screen with a probability given by your standard wave refracted through a double slit.

 

[Obis]

Tell me with a straight face that you can get out 8 hours of quality reading of theoretical texts each day... I can seldom go above half an hour without getting bored out of my mind. The moment you lose your curiosity when reading is the moment it starts being grinding and I think that continuing from that point hurts as much as it helps.

I can't. But it's not necessary to study 8 hours daily, in my opinion. I usually read 15 minutes to 2 hours straight, but I'm trying to do it twice or more a day. I agree with you that reading without curiosity is useless, that's why I said "high quality books", not just "books". For example, right now I'm reading Spivak's Calculus - I'm enjoying it, even though I hardly can read it for more than 1 hour. Also a good solution is to change the subject you're reading about, let's say, every 30 minutes : 30 minutes of mathematics, 30 minutes of physics, and then 30 minutes of.. Philosophy?

 

[Ryker]

Thanks for the responses, everyone! I see there's quite a bit of variability in the answers, and most people seem to fit into the 6 - 10 hours category, with some still going over that or doing less.

I went to the lectures, that's about it. There is of course always this nagging feeling that you should do more but you learn to live with it, mindless book grinding isn't fun nor productive in my opinion.

So my follow-up question would first be to those doing less work. How are you managing as far as grades are concerned? Did you make a conscious decision not to study more than that, do you not care about grades that much or are you more of an outlier compared to your peers, in the sense that you get things so much faster? I guess this ties in with Klockan3's post ...

And also, what about those of you who are studying 10+ hours? Do you just enjoy the material that much? Or did you, again, make a conscious choice you're just going to grind it through the university, and reap the rewards, if they come, later? Because the latter is something I'm leaning towards, but it seems that throughout my first studies and work life, I had the same mindset, and I'm kind of scared my life will be over before that "later" will come if I'm always going to be doing that. Also, how do you then cope with not having time for anything else besides Physics? I mean, don't get me wrong, I switched careers, because I think I want to be doing Physics for the rest of my life, but it's not all I want to be doing. And that's an honest answer, I think. I could fool myself into saying that I like it so much I don't care if I have time for other stuff, but I do have stuff I like to do, and don't want to go through life putting everything off.

If you're working that much, then you can at least afford to give yourself the weekend off. University's meant to be fun, and you should certainly try and get a good balance between work and play.

So I guess as far as your reply is concerned, I always think of giving myself time off, but with so much work to be done, it seems I can't afford to. I can barely stay on top of the readings and all, and even losing a whole day would put me too far behind, and make catching up an even more anxious time.

On the other hand, there's this short story I quite like and ties in greatly with what I think you're trying to say. Once there was a guy trying to topple over a tree using a saw. The tree was large and thick, and as he was sawing for a long time, his saw was quickly losing sharpness. So he found it hard to saw through the trunk, but still continued without pause. Another guy comes by and plainly asks him why he doesn't take a break, sharpen his saw, and then continue. And the guy doing the sawing replied that he can't, because he just has no time to stop and skip a beat. So rationalizing things, I should do what you're suggesting, but I can't seem to be able to do it, because then I feel I'm going to be quite angry with myself for not giving it my everything, shoudl I not get the expected marks.

Oh no, I've been meaning to ask about this. This is a good description of what's been happening with me. On the exams I nail all the problem questions but get most of the concept questions wrong. I felt like it's ok because most people seem the opposite but lately it's been bugging me. The general consensus seemed that from doing enough problems you'd understand the concepts, but the kids that don't do any problems understand the concepts. So, how do you understand both?

This is exactly why I think reading theory is more useful than doing problems. I mean, sure, you need both, but if it's one or the other, I think theory wins every time. Because if you master it, you master practice or at least give yourself a chance to do so, but it doesn't work the other way. It was kind of similar when I was in law school, we never wrote suits or other legal documents, and we were all kind of puzzled by that, since even the secretaries in law firms could write simple legal letter and such. But one of the professors assured us that knowing the material and theory, you'll learn all of this stuff within a month of working, but that secretary won't be able to do stuff other than those simple things and will be quite puzzled herself when a small detail will be different to what she is used to. And when I was working, I found that to be true, and knowing the stuff, you're not phazed by small differences between practical examples, but if you only do those, then you usually won't be able to accommodate for them.

Also a good solution is to change the subject you're reading about, let's say, every 30 minutes : 30 minutes of mathematics, 30 minutes of physics, and then 30 minutes of.. Philosophy?

Yeah, that's true, although 30 minutes might be on the short side. But I do like taking courses in Maths, Physics, Computing Science (programming in Java), and Astronomy, as they offer different approaches to the study material, so it doesn't get boring as fast.

 

[xGAME-OVERx]

And also, what about those of you who are studying 10+ hours? Do you just enjoy the material that much? Or did you, again, make a conscious choice you're just going to grind it through the university, and reap the rewards, if they come, later? Because the latter is something I'm leaning towards, but it seems that throughout my first studies and work life, I had the same mindset, and I'm kind of scared my life will be over before that "later" will come if I'm always going to be doing that. Also, how do you then cope with not having time for anything else besides Physics? I mean, don't get me wrong, I switched careers, because I think I want to be doing Physics for the rest of my life, but it's not all I want to be doing. And that's an honest answer, I think. I could fool myself into saying that I like it so much I don't care if I have time for other stuff, but I do have stuff I like to do, and don't want to go through life putting everything off.

I put in lots of hours on the material I love precisely for that reason. However, I put in lots of hours on the material I love and the material I don't enjoy so much because I want high grades too! In part it's because I expect myself to perform at my very best in whatever I do, and in part it's because my family/advisor/supervisor/girlfriend/peers all have very high expectations and if I didn't do well I'd feel like I let them down. Yea, it's a stupid reason, I know.

I cope with not having a life outside of the course because I couldn't be much more antisocial, I've never really had much of a social life (even in secondary school). I guess this is an advantage really, because I don't often find myself working all night wishing I could be out somewhere else. But I do appreciate this isn't the case for most people.

One thing I've seen over the last year or so is that some people actually perform better when they have something else. I know of someone who worked every hour of every day last year and burned out (kept slugging on anyway) and ended up with a 2.2 (not sure what this is in GPA, sorry!). This year they are working a couple of hours a day plus 8 hour days at weekends, going out drinking 3 or 4 times a week, participating in several societies, and they are now getting 1sts!

It seems to me that you have to find your balance. You have to discover how much work you have to do and how much you can get away with not going in order to get the grades you want. I think your first year is very important in this regard, because you should be "tweaking" your study habits in order to find this balance.

Scott

 

[xGAME-OVERx]

If you're working that much, then you can at least afford to give yourself the weekend off. University's meant to be fun, and you should certainly try and get a good balance between work and play.

Maybe most people will disagree with me on this (most of the UK student community seems too anyway), but I've always thought university is first and foremost about studying. Fun should come second. Sure, you'll never get three (or four) years opportunity to party like this again, but you'll also potentially not have the same three (or four) year opportunity to study full time again...

 

[Klockan3]

Thanks for the responses, everyone! I see there's quite a bit of variability in the answers, and most people seem to fit into the 6 - 10 hours category, with some still going over that or doing less.So my follow-up question would first be to those doing less work. How are you managing as far as grades are concerned? Did you make a conscious decision not to study more than that, do you not care about grades that much or are you more of an outlier compared to your peers, in the sense that you get things so much faster?

I have an almost perfect long term memory, I certainly wouldn't have been able to do this without that. I still remember most things I learned in classes or documentaries 10 years ago for example (even those I wasn't particularly interested in) so it isn't really fair to compare me with your average physics student. My grades aren't perfect but they are good enough for me.

 

[Phyisab****]

And also, what about those of you who are studying 10+ hours? Do you just enjoy the material that much? Or did you, again, make a conscious choice you're just going to grind it through the university, and reap the rewards, if they come, later?

I definitely didn't enjoy studying beyond the first hour or two a day. I guess I have to explain that my first semester I partied way too hard. I had the time of my life but I got a 1.0. People had always considered me to be "smart" and my ego took a huge hit, I felt like I had lost a huge part of myself. Once the reality of my grades hit me, I felt really, really depressed. It was a pretty low point of my life.

I decided that if I was going to go back after that first semester, I wasn't going to settle for anything less than my absolute best. Which meant if I wasn't getting straight A's, then I needed to try harder. It's really hard to get straight A's in physics, so after every exam I redoubled my efforts and tried even harder than before. It got to the point where I was basically punishing myself for every exam that was less than perfect by studying to the point where it was mentally painful. I don't recommend this, I'm sure someone could diagnose me with some kind of mental disorder.

I guess it was reinforced because my roommate at the time was doing the same thing. Except I wouldn't sacrifice sleep, and he would. I remember one time he stayed up for 3 days straight doing work. On the third day, he looked liked he was on the verge of death. He did actually manage a 4.0 though, unlike me.

 

[tomtheemu]

My order of priorities, which is working out great so far:
1. 8 hours of sleep per night
2. Grades that you're satisfied with
3. Every remaining moment, have as much fun as possible

For me, that ends up being about 6 hours of work, including class, per day, 1-2 for video games, 1 for exercise, 1-2 for random other stuff, and the remaining 5-7 hanging out with my friends, whether watching tv, playing games, out drinking, or whatever else. I've never pulled an all-nighter (for school, at least) or gone a full day without "wasting" at least a couple hours on something entirely unrelated to my work. I think it's a terrible wasted opportunity to have a social life that's anything less than wild and awesome at this point in our lives.

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

I put in lots of hours on the material I love precisely for that reason. However, I put in lots of hours on the material I love and the material I don't enjoy so much because I want high grades too! In part it's because I expect myself to perform at my very best in whatever I do, and in part it's because my family/advisor/supervisor/girlfriend/peers all have very high expectations and if I didn't do well I'd feel like I let them down. Yea, it's a stupid reason, I know.

I cope with not having a life outside of the course because I couldn't be much more antisocial, I've never really had much of a social life (even in secondary school). I guess this is an advantage really, because I don't often find myself working all night wishing I could be out somewhere else. But I do appreciate this isn't the case for most people.

One thing I've seen over the last year or so is that some people actually perform better when they have something else. I know of someone who worked every hour of every day last year and burned out (kept slugging on anyway) and ended up with a 2.2 (not sure what this is in GPA, sorry!). This year they are working a couple of hours a day plus 8 hour days at weekends, going out drinking 3 or 4 times a week, participating in several societies, and they are now getting 1sts!

It seems to me that you have to find your balance. You have to discover how much work you have to do and how much you can get away with not going in order to get the grades you want. I think your first year is very important in this regard, because you should be "tweaking" your study habits in order to find this balance.

Scott

Having a girlfriend really contradicts having no social life...

 

[xGAME-OVERx]

Having a girlfriend really contradicts having no social life...

Good point - to clarify, by social life I mean friends/societies/clubs. My girlfriend and I are at different universities and don't see each other all that much during term time.

 

[Dougggggg]

My time spent working varies quite a bit, if I don't have any tests or papers coming up right away, 3 days a week I spend 5 hours in class and don't really do anything out of class, then the other 4 I will work about 3-4 hours a day. When things get really busy with papers and tests for my classes, things change a bit. I start having 20 hour days where I wake up at 7 to go to class, go through class, do homework/study/write papers, maybe stop somewhere in there for lunch or dinner, then continue until 3, 4, or 5 in the morning then go to sleep. Rinse and Repeat.

It also depends on your course load for a semester. Just be willing to spend a lot of time and you will be fine. Don't try to just find the minimum number of hours per week to do well. Be willing to do whatever it takes and enjoy the times you don't have to do as much. Eventually you will reach a point where more and more of your time will fade away.