How to calculate the perpendicular tension?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the perpendicular tension in a cable connected to a bar with a weight, as presented in a problem from the Feynman Lectures on statics. Participants explore various approaches to solving the problem, including the balance of forces and moments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the correct trigonometric function to use for calculating tension, suggesting that the downward force might imply zero tension, which they acknowledge is incorrect.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of balance of moments as a potential method to approach the problem.
  • Some participants suggest looking up "The principle of Moments" in online texts and studying worked examples, indicating that it is a fundamental concept in statics.
  • It is proposed that the problem can be solved using force balances at the point where the rod meets the rope, assuming the rod can only exert force along its length.
  • There is a discussion about the relevance of moments in most cases, with some participants arguing that while force balances can work in this scenario, moments should be considered for a comprehensive understanding.
  • One participant notes that forces acting along the beam have zero moment arm, thus contributing zero to the moments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of using moment balances versus force balances. While some argue that force balances are sufficient for this problem, others emphasize the importance of moments in general cases, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations in the Feynman Lectures as a resource, suggesting that additional foundational concepts may be necessary for a complete understanding of the problem.

jorgeha
Messages
12
Reaction score
1
Hello to everyone, merry christmas and happy new year! I was trying some exercises on the Feynman Lectures, on the topic of statics, and I came across with a problem which, simplified until where I am stuck, asks for the tension of a cable perpendicular to a bar with a weight on the top of it, as in the picture below. I don't know which trigonometrical function should I use, as the force going downwards y-axis is perpendicular to the tension on the x-axis, the tension seems to be 0! (That is obviously incorrect) Should I first calculate the force going down the bar, and then multiply it by the angle θ?
https://postimg.org/image/5401ebhg3/
Thanks for reading and answering!
 

Attachments

  • Sin título.png
    Sin título.png
    2.1 KB · Views: 706
Physics news on Phys.org
Have you heard of balance of moments?
 
Chestermiller said:
Have you heard of balance of moments?
Sadly, I haven't. I am studying with the Lectures and it isn't a very complete book (I mean, it isn't like a textbook). With the balance of moments, which other concepts do you think I should learn? Can you show me how to do it anyways? Thanks
 
Rather than trying to understand some cobbled-together explanation from a PF member, it would be good if you look up "The principle of Moments" in an on-line text and look at some worked examples. It's a very basic bit of book work and you will find it in many places. The very basic approach is to study the see saw, with all the forces acting up or down, at right angles to the beam. The next step is to have forces that are acting in a general direction (which is like your problem)
This link is just one of many that have the answer to how to work out your prob.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Chestermiller
It is possible to do this problem without using a moment balance. You do force balances on the point where the rod meets the rope. The trick is to assume that the rod can exert a force only in the direction along its length.
 
sophiecentaur said:
Rather than trying to understand some cobbled-together explanation from a PF member, it would be good if you look up "The principle of Moments" in an on-line text and look at some worked examples. It's a very basic bit of book work and you will find it in many places. The very basic approach is to study the see saw, with all the forces acting up or down, at right angles to the beam. The next step is to have forces that are acting in a general direction (which is like your problem)
This link is just one of many that have the answer to how to work out your prob.
Thank you very much for your answer. Do you know any other important concept I should learn? I will study that principle tomorrow :). I am studying with the Lectures, and they aren't like a textbook, I don't know which particular concepts I must know... do you know any other which will be useful for me? Thank you!
 
Chestermiller said:
It is possible to do this problem without using a moment balance. You do force balances on the point where the rod meets the rope. The trick is to assume that the rod can exert a force only in the direction along its length.
Thanks, that was my doubt!
 
Chestermiller said:
It is possible to do this problem without using a moment balance. You do force balances on the point where the rod meets the rope. The trick is to assume that the rod can exert a force only in the direction along its length.
That's true in this case but it only works when all forces are applied to the same point at the end of a beam. Moments are very relevant in most cases and it is good to be able to tackle all problems in the same way - at least until you are very familiar with the whole business. Also, forces acting along the beam can be ignored when you use Moments.
 
sophiecentaur said:
That's true in this case but it only works when all forces are applied to the same point at the end of a beam. Moments are very relevant in most cases and it is good to be able to tackle all problems in the same way - at least until you are very familiar with the whole business. Also, forces acting along the beam can be ignored when you use Moments.
The forces along the beam have zero moment arm, so their moments are zero.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: sophiecentaur

Similar threads

  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
6K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K