How to get capacitance from potential FEM

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on calculating the capacitance of a nonlinear capacitor with a cup-shaped upper plate and a flat lower plate using finite element method (FEM) simulations of the Poisson equation. Participants explore the relationship between electric potential, charge, and capacitance, as well as the implications of the materials involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the formula for capacitance as C = Q/V, noting the need for charge (Q) to be calculated from the electric field.
  • Another participant clarifies that the divergence of the electric field relates to charge density, referencing Gauss's law and suggesting the laplacian of the potential gives charge density.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the relationship between the electric field at the surface and surface charge density, seeking clarification.
  • One participant suggests that integration of charge density should be performed over volume rather than surface, questioning the previous assertions.
  • A later reply introduces the complexity of the materials involved, mentioning that the plates are made of polymer and that water between the plates may polarize when a potential difference is applied.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit some agreement on the need to calculate charge density from the electric field, but there is disagreement regarding the specifics of charge integration and the effects of the materials involved, leaving the discussion unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the materials and the specific methods for calculating charge density from numerical data, which remain unresolved.

rinale84
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Hi guys,
I hope this is the correct section otherwise I apologize :).The goal is to find the capacity of a non linear capacitance composed by an upper plate which has a cup shape and the lower plate which is flat.
The problem is the following: by means of a FEM simulation of the Poisson equation I was able to find the potential but once I got it how can I get the capacitance?
 
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C = Q/V

You still need the charge.
If it is not immediately available, you need to calculate it:
- the field at the surface gives the charge density
- summing over the whole surface will provide Q
 
Excuse my silly question I don't remember why the electric filed at the surface gives the surface charge density..thank u very much
 
Not exactly the electric field but the divergence of electric field. Thats the differential form of gauss law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauss_law#Differential_form

Since you have the potential, it is the laplacian of the potential that gives the charge density.

PS i don't remember how to calculate the laplacian for numerical data.
 
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I think some function in MATLAB will be helpful... But the integration of the chrage density should be performed on the volume and not on the surface!Am i wrong?
 
I am not sure I am in this situation the plates of the capacitor are made of a polymer and inside the two plates we have water. Above the polymer there is a layer of conductive material on which we apply the potential...Besides how the charge will behave when i apply a potential difference among the plates? The water should polarize am I wrong? Sry if I forgot this fundamental detail before...
 
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