How to get into Harvard, MIT or Princeton from India?

[Vatsal Goyal]

Hi everyone, I am a 10th grader studying in India. I want to know what it will take to get into universities like Harvard, MIT, etc. I have been getting 10 CGPA from class 6th to 9th,and i hope to score well in my boards. I am also a 5th grade pianist(Trinity) and I hope to complete upto 7 grades by the time I fill my application. I also have a YouTube channel where I upload my piano videos. I also do quite a bit of photography and have a page for the same on Instagram. I also play basketball. I will also be giving SATs some time in the future.

 

[lekh2003]

Hi everyone, I am a 10th grader studying in India. I want to know what it will take to get into universities like Harvard, MIT, etc. I have been getting 10 CGPA from class 6th to 9th,and i hope to score well in my boards. I am also a 5th grade pianist(Trinity) and I hope to complete upto 7 grades by the time I fill my application. I also have a YouTube channel where I upload my piano videos. I also do quite a bit of photography and have a page for the same on Instagram. I also play basketball. I will also be giving SATs some time in the future.

You seem to have a really good profile. Lots of different kinds of activities from a range of subjects.

I don't know about how doing the piano will help you, but if you can become a master pianist after completing all 8 grades from Trinity, that would be really helpful.

Pursue basketball. It's a big deal in the US. I know someone in the 9th standard playing in a regional basketball team and has a stipend. He has already received invitations from a few mid-range universities in US.

Right now you're in the 10th standard so you can choose what higher standard curriculum you want. If you can, please choose the IB curriculum. It really helps in University applications. Universities love IB students. It is extremely difficult to pass, but you can reap the benefits later.

Get into competitions. Do the Olympiad competitions and other competitions in your region. I took part in the University of Waterloo math competition and got a neat medal, which looks impressive to universities. I also took part in the ASMA, Carnegie Mellon math competition, etc.

I don't know for sure if these methods will work. I haven't yet applied for universities. But this is still the best advice I can give.

 

[cmyers152]

I'll start this off with I'm no crazy scholar, but my uncle is. He received his PhD from MIT and he highly recommended NOT going to undergrad at MIT. But instead going to a big school with good research programs. The undergraduate rigor at those schools is overkill. Going to graduate school at one of those places is significantly more important.

 

[ConvenientParking]

Apply everywhere. Take every opportunity presented to apply if you wish to continue your studies in the USA. If you're not accepted to Harvard, MIT, or Princeton, you'll be like 99.9% of Americans. There are quite a few other private Ivy League schools with academic prestige. There are also a lot of private schools with comparable prestige outside of the Ivy League. There are also a lot of large public universities in the USA with notable academic prestige. If you wish to continue your studies in the US, don't limit yourself to three schools in the northeast of the USA. The largest research universities in the United States are public schools who welcome serious students from all over the globe.

 

[StoneTemplePython]

You need a base rate here: look at past admissions data.

Note: what you've said has two distinct kinds of schools.

Places like MIT and Caltech have blind admissions. You may want to do some serious work look at nationalities, GPAs, etc. of admittances. Very hardcore and very hard to get in. This post from 2 years ago seems relevant:

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...dge-or-other-top-schools.813011/#post-5103667

- - - -
Places like Harvard and Princeton value academics but also family connections (I think H still does legacy admits as well), and a lot of other things. Admissions are not blinded. If you do some research you'll see that there are brewing issues about demographics and relative ease of getting in.

- - - -

main idea: gather some data / base rate info on who has been admitted by these schools in the past. Chain your expectations to these percentages accordingly.

Note: you can over-ride these base rates in exceptional cases -- if you happened to be a nationally acclaimed pianist and were applying to music program at one of these schools, perhaps. A friend of mine went to Columbia -- he grew up in India, had flawless grades, and was at the very top of India's national rankings in his sport, and then played said sport for Columbia. Things like that can help put you over the edge. Otherwise, you probably get about the same odds as everyone else, given grades, test scores, etc.

 

[berkeman]

I don't know about how doing the piano will help you, but if you can become a master pianist after completing all 8 grades from Trinity, that would be really helpful.

Pursue basketball. It's a big deal in the US. I know someone in the 9th standard playing in a regional basketball team and has a stipend. He has already received invitations from a few mid-range universities in US.

Sorry, but this is misinformation in this context. Unless the OP is pursuing a music or basketball scholarship (which I don't think they are doing), this advice is non-helpful, IMO.

I need to update my comments. Please see my follow-up post below...

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...-or-princeton-from-india.935717/#post-5912324

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Get into a top 50 undergrad institution in the US, major in physics, earn a 3.9 or better GPA, get into a research lab, publish a couple papers, get great letters of recommendation, score in the 90th percentile or better on the PGRE, and apply to PhD programs at Harvard, MIT, Princeton, and Standford.

Getting admitted into a BS program from high school is much harder than that.

 

[lekh2003]

Sorry, but this is misinformation in this context. Unless the OP is pursuing a music or basketball scholarship (which I don't think they are doing), this advice is non-helpful, IMO.

Well, that could be an open option. I'm just throwing it out there. Hope I didn't confuse the OP.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I'm just throwing it out there.

And it should be thrown out. In the other sense of the word.

It's not helpful. You might also think about whether your perspective as a middle-schooler is the right one to be giving advice to people farther along their educational trajectory.

 

[lekh2003]

And it should be thrown out. In the other sense of the word. [emoji2]

It's not helpful. You might also think about whether your perspective as a middle-schooler is the right one to be giving advice to people farther along their educational trajectory.

I'm just one year younger than the OP, I think about what I'm doing as well. I have an understanding of what I'm doing and I gave some advice on what I will be doing.

Of course, I can understand that your advice as an experienced adult will be more valuable to the OP.

 

[radium]

It’s very, very difficult to get into schools like Harvard, MIT, etc. if you from outside the U.S as they often admit fewer international students. At MIT for example, the acceptance rate for international students is around 1/3 that for domestic students which is already below 10%. There is also the problem of getting financial aid if you need it. Some schools like Stanford are not need blind for international students, which means that it is very difficult to get financial aid given the chance you are admitted (which again goes down significantly if you need financial aid). The schools that are need blind for international students are usually much harder to get into since they account for the fact that they may admit many international students who need aid, which explains the lower acceptance rate at MIT.

So my advice would be to apply to a lot of schools and see what happens. A lot of undergrad admissions depends on luck and a surprisingly small number students at top schools (excluding MIT or Caltech and some others) are admitted solely for their academic qualifications. For grad school admissions these other factors do not come into play. As a result, admissions are much less random and in your own control given that you are very good.

You may also want to consider applying to places in the U.K. like Cambridge, Oxford, or Imperial College London. I would highly consider that in your situation as those are wonderful and prestigious institutions where the students seem very happy.

If you choose to stay in India, most of the grad students I know in the sciences went to one of the IITs. Their were some complaints about the education system but I think graduates usually do well.

 

[berkeman]

Sorry, but this is misinformation in this context. Unless the OP is pursuing a music or basketball scholarship (which I don't think they are doing), this advice is non-helpful, IMO.

I need to update my comments. Please see my follow-up post below...

I need to retract what I said about misinformation. In a Mentor discussion about this thread, one of the Mentors pointed this out to me:

The piano angle isn’t weird. I know some students who were outstanding young pianists with top academic grades, winning piano competitions who got into top schools. Mastery of music can signify latent mathematical skill. Schools look for that extra edge. Outstanding basketball skills can also get you in depending on the needs of the school.

So I guess the advice is not so suspect after all. Sorry @lekh2003

 

[StoneTemplePython]

I need to retract what I said about misinformation. In a Mentor discussion about this thread, one of the Mentors pointed this out to me:

So I guess the advice is not so suspect after all. Sorry @lekh2003

I think it's a bit more nuanced than this. What I was getting at when I said:

You need a base rate here

Note: you can over-ride these base rates in exceptional cases -- if you happened to be a nationally acclaimed pianist and were applying to music program at one of these schools, perhaps

This what I was hinting at with exceptional music skill. (Extending it to signalling math talent is a nice development.)
- - - -
regarding basketball:

Unless OP is exceptionally tall and skilled at basketball, I'd junk that idea. (Based on name I'm inferring OP is male.) Men's basketball is too competitive a sport with too much money behind it. Places like Harvard and Princeton are D1, though not known for sport but nevertheless. Somewhere like Stanford of course is completely out of reach here. If it was something more niche than basketball, perhaps.

With respect to data: a quick look on the Internet indicates that, at least as of a few years ago, there has never been an Indian national playing mens D1 basketball. (There have been some Canadian and American born Indians though.) This comes down to data and inference. People are welcome to ignore base rates when making decisions, but there's a term for that: ignorance of Base Rate Fallacy (credit: Kahneman). Base rates aren't destiny but they have a strong probabilistic molding.

OP did not indicate he is the top ranked player in his country. Up to any reasonable approximation, I don't see how basketball matters here for a D1 school.

 

[lekh2003]

I think it's a bit more nuanced than this. What I was getting at when I said:



This what I was hinting at with exceptional music skill. (Extending it to signalling math talent is a nice development.)
- - - -
regarding basketball:

Unless OP is exceptionally tall and skilled at basketball, I'd junk that idea. (Based on name I'm inferring OP is male.) Men's basketball is too competitive a sport with too much money behind it. Places like Harvard and Princeton are D1, though not known for sport but nevertheless. Somewhere like Stanford of course is completely out of reach here. If it was something more niche than basketball, perhaps.

With respect to data: a quick look on the Internet indicates that, at least as of a few years ago, there has never been an Indian national playing mens D1 basketball. (There have been some Canadian and American born Indians though.) This comes down to data and inference. People are welcome to ignore base rates when making decisions, but there's a term for that: ignorance of Base Rate Fallacy (credit: Kahneman). Base rates aren't destiny but they have a strong probabilistic molding.

OP did not indicate he is the top ranked player in his country. Up to any reasonable approximation, I don't see how basketball matters here for a D1 school.

Yeah I agree. Music might be a possibility considering the OP has almost mastered the piano, however basketball could be a stretch.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I can only speak to MIT. Harvard is different, and I have no idea what "etc." means in this context. Unlike some on this thread, I am going to limit my discussion to things I actually know something about.

MIT accepts about 4-5 students per year from India. India must graduate around 20 million students per year, so the a priori chances of the OP getting in are about 2 x 10^-7, which means that his chances of not getting in are 99.99998%. That, in turn, means that the OP needs a strong Plan B (and Plans C, D and E), because the odds are extraordinarily high that that's the plan he'll be executing.

The OP hasn't engaged in this thread - just tossed out the opening message. This doesn't indicate the level of seriousness - remember, we're looking at 2 x 10^-7 - that indicates a student will do well at MIT. Obviously, those are the students MIT is looking for.

The OP originally posted his in the New Member Introductions thread, ignoring the "no questions here" banner. This also doesn't indicate the level of seriousness - we're fighting 2 x 10^-7 - that indicates a student will do well at MIT. Those are the students MIT is looking for.

MIT has a wealth of information on its web site, including the great "applying sideways" blog. The OP has given us no indication that he's aware of it, which does not bode well for the amount of homework he has done. Neither has lumping MIT in with Harvard. This doesn't indicate the level of seriousness - again, we're looking at 2 x 10^-7 - that indicates a student will do well at MIT. Those are the students MIT is looking for.

I can't believe that this thread has taken the statement "I also play basketball" and somehow turned this into a skill that will improve the OP's odds of admission by seven orders of magnitude. Seven orders of magnitude! There comes a time when "advice" becomes so worthless it actually has negative value.

Likewise "Grade 5" on the piano (or even Grade 7) does not in anyway translate to "top 4-5 students this year".

So, the OP needs to:

1. Be realistic in his chances
2. Read the directions - good advice no matter what he pursues
   
3. Do his homework
   • In class so he gets good grades
   • Out of class so he knows what the universities he is interested in are all about

 

[CrysPhys]

Note: you can over-ride these base rates in exceptional cases -- if you happened to be a nationally acclaimed pianist and were applying to music program at one of these schools, perhaps. A friend of mine went to Columbia -- he grew up in India, had flawless grades, and was at the very top of India's national rankings in his sport, and then played said sport for Columbia. Things like that can help put you over the edge. Otherwise, you probably get about the same odds as everyone else, given grades, test scores, etc.

In regard to the comments concerning advantages afforded by music proficiency, I have this anecdote. Years ago, when my daughter was in high school, we toured a number of major universities. During most of the tours, admissions officers gave talks about what they were looking for in prospective students. I distinctly remember the talk at Yale. Yale was very proud of its student orchestra. The admissions officer said that that year they had only one harpist left, and she was a senior. So Yale was giving strong preference to candidates who were accomplished harpists. He wasn't kidding. In the past he said other specific musicians were targeted when there was a potential hole in the orchestra looming. The point he was making was there's a number of non-academic factors that go into the admissions process, and that the weight given to specific factors can vary year-to-year. That year, they were also looking to beef up their fencing team.

 

[CrysPhys]

MIT accepts about 4-5 students per year from India. India must graduate around 20 million students per year, so the a priori chances of the OP getting in are about 2 x 10^-7, which means that his chances of not getting in are 99.99998%.

This is a bizarre argument. Even assuming that the number of grads (20 million) is correct (haven't checked), how many actually apply to MIT?

 

[Vanadium 50]

how many actually apply to MIT?

Probably a few thousand. But do you think those few thousand are equally distributed among the 20 million? And if i spot you three orders of magnitude and the odds of not getting in are only 99.98%, does it really change anything?

 

[lekh2003]

Probably a few thousand. But do you think those few thousand are equally distributed among the 20 million? And if i spot you three orders of magnitude and the odds of not getting in are only 99.98%, does it really change anything?

But the OP has given many options. MIT, Harvard and I'm assuming that etc. means other ivy league schools and the other big University names.

 

[Vanadium 50]

But the OP has given many options.

Does he have 1000 options? I just spotted three orders of magnitude.

 

[lekh2003]

Does he have 1000 options? I just spotted three orders of magnitude.

I'm not saying that he has a very high chance, I'm just saying that your calculations have over simplified the entire situation. There are several factors including the fact that he has several options, some which are easier to get into than MIT.

 

[PeroK]

MIT accepts about 4-5 students per year from India. India must graduate around 20 million students per year, so the a priori chances of the OP getting in are about 2 x 10-7, which means that his chances of not getting in are 99.99998%. That, in turn, means that the OP needs a strong Plan B (and Plans C, D and E), because the odds are extraordinarily high that that's the plan he'll be executing.

That assumes that every one of the 20 million Indian graduates actually applied to MIT. At the other extreme it's possible, although unlikely, that only 4-5 Indian graduates applied to MIT and they all got in. That would makes the OP's chances 100%!

 

[F=qE]

...At the other extreme it's possible, although unlikely, that only 4-5 Indian graduates applied to MIT and they all got in. That would makes the OP's chances 100%!

This assumes that OP is at the exact same caliber as the 4-5 accepted. MIT will not lower the standard for OP. So thus, OP could make the acceptance rate 75 or 80% instead as the one reject in the group of 4 or 5 ;)

Anyways, OP, you should really have a back up plan. And a back up back up plan. And a back up back up back up plan because getting into these schools is extremely hard, even for the most qualified person there is.

 

[PeroK]

This assumes that OP is at the exact same caliber as the 4-5 accepted. MIT will not lower the standard for OP. So thus, OP could make the acceptance rate 75 or 80% instead as the one reject in the group of 4 or 5 ;)

Anyways, OP, you should really have a back up plan. And a back up back up plan. And a back up back up back up plan because getting into these schools is extremely hard, even for the most qualified person there is.

I would suggest that:

a) Getting into MIT is nearly impossible for most people.
b) Getting into MIT is reasonably easy if you are good enough.

So, any calculation based on generic odds is largely irrelevant.

You could draw an analogy with, say, getting an invitation to play at the US Masters Golf. There are hundreds of millions of golfers around the world and for most of them an invitation to Augusta is impossible. But, those with the right qualifications will almost certainly get an invitation. Then, there will be a number of golfers where it is a matter of chance whether they get an invite. The generic odds, therefore, don't apply to any individual golfer.

 

[StoneTemplePython]

This is a bizarre argument. Even assuming that the number of grads (20 million) is correct (haven't checked), how many actually apply to MIT?

It's a lazy argument, but not bizarre. There's a reason I originally linked back to @Vanadium 50 's older post. The point is the effect size (i.e. 4 people a year out of the second biggest country in the world, and one that has some extremely capable elite students) is so incredibly large here, you can be lazy in the argument with materially altering it.

That assumes that every one of the 20 million Indian graduates actually applied to MIT. At the other extreme it's possible, although unlikely, that only 4-5 Indian graduates applied to MIT and they all got in. That would makes the OP's chances 100%!

Note: if there is a 'game' like this and one year 20 million people play and 4 'win', you can make a good estimate that your odds of winning are extremely low. If said game had only 4 people play and all 4 'won' in the prior year, you cannot make a good estimate that a players chances of winning at 100%. Why? (Well for starters, consider the effect of tiny amount of variation / noise in this process -- in case one a bit of noise in number of acceptances and applicants still gives you the inference of de minimis chances. But small amount of noise in the second case easily makes that acceptance rate fall below 50%). Put differently the effect of a small bit of noise has highly asymmetric impacts in these two scenarios. (There are other issues here too, but the asymmetry should be clear enough to people.) When probabilistic arguments are made (in particular the role of prior information), inevitably people find them unpleasant and/ or counterintutive. There is lots of useful prior information out there. Maybe this should become a split off posting walking people through Thinking Fast and Slow or something like that. The whole point of that book is that people, including the author himself in real life, disregard valuable prior information all the time.

 

[PeroK]

Some data:

http://web.mit.edu/registrar/stats/geo/index.html

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

Thank you all so much. It really helped to clear up a few things in my mind. Yes, I am not aiming for any university in particular, I am open for options, I just want to study in some of the best universities of the world.

 

[PeroK]

Thank you all so much. It really helped to clear up a few things in my mind. Yes, I am not aiming for any university in particular, I am open for options, I just want to study in some of the best universities of the world.

Welcome back. Please just clear up one point: do you play basketball?

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

Yes I do play basketball, but just at the school and district level and I understand that it won't make much of a difference.

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

While I was away, I did a fair bit of research work. I realized that I need to get medals at national and international level olympiads to make a stand and I have started to study for the Regional Mathematics Olympiad, which is the first step to IMO in India

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

And as a backup plan, I am taking coaching classes to prepare for JEE, an entrance exam in India to get into IITs, India's most prestigious universtites. I am still unsure about what I have to focus on though. IIT or olympiads to get a chance to study in top universites

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

I can only speak to MIT. Harvard is different, and I have no idea what "etc." means in this context. Unlike some on this thread, I am going to limit my discussion to things I actually know something about.

MIT accepts about 4-5 students per year from India. India must graduate around 20 million students per year, so the a priori chances of the OP getting in are about 2 x 10^-7, which means that his chances of not getting in are 99.99998%. That, in turn, means that the OP needs a strong Plan B (and Plans C, D and E), because the odds are extraordinarily high that that's the plan he'll be executing.

The OP hasn't engaged in this thread - just tossed out the opening message. This doesn't indicate the level of seriousness - remember, we're looking at 2 x 10^-7 - that indicates a student will do well at MIT. Obviously, those are the students MIT is looking for.

The OP originally posted his in the New Member Introductions thread, ignoring the "no questions here" banner. This also doesn't indicate the level of seriousness - we're fighting 2 x 10^-7 - that indicates a student will do well at MIT. Those are the students MIT is looking for.

MIT has a wealth of information on its web site, including the great "applying sideways" blog. The OP has given us no indication that he's aware of it, which does not bode well for the amount of homework he has done. Neither has lumping MIT in with Harvard. This doesn't indicate the level of seriousness - again, we're looking at 2 x 10^-7 - that indicates a student will do well at MIT. Those are the students MIT is looking for.

I can't believe that this thread has taken the statement "I also play basketball" and somehow turned this into a skill that will improve the OP's odds of admission by seven orders of magnitude. Seven orders of magnitude! There comes a time when "advice" becomes so worthless it actually has negative value.

Likewise "Grade 5" on the piano (or even Grade 7) does not in anyway translate to "top 4-5 students this year".

So, the OP needs to:

1. Be realistic in his chances
2. Read the directions - good advice no matter what he pursues
   
3. Do his homework
   • In class so he gets good grades
   • Out of class so he knows what the universities he is interested in are all about

Thank you for you advice! Though harsh it was, it opened my eyes. I am still figuring out what I have to focus and considering my options to make a decision, hence it might seem that I am not serious enough.

 

[CrysPhys]

Probably a few thousand. But do you think those few thousand are equally distributed among the 20 million? And if i spot you three orders of magnitude and the odds of not getting in are only 99.98%, does it really change anything?

If your point is that getting admitted into MIT is very difficult, then your point still stands. It's just that invalid statistics diminishes the credibility of an otherwise valid point. Here are some stats reported by MIT for the undergrad class entering fall of 2017 (http://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats):

General
Freshman applications 20,247
Freshman admits 1,452
Percentage admitted 7.2%

International Students
Applied 4,653
Admitted 135

Note that the total number of international applicants was 4,653; so it's not likely that there were a few thousand applicants from India alone. (There's supposed to be a webpage giving further stats by country, but I couldn't bring it up.)

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

If your point is that getting admitted into MIT is very difficult, then your point still stands. It's just that invalid statistics diminishes the credibility of an otherwise valid point. Here are some stats reported by MIT for the undergrad class entering fall of 2017 (http://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats):

General
Freshman applications 20,247
Freshman admits 1,452
Percentage admitted 7.2%

International Students
Applied 4,653
Admitted 135

Note that the total number of international applicants was 4,653; so it's not likely that there were a few thousand applicants from India alone. (There's supposed to be a webpage giving further stats by country, but I couldn't bring it up.)

http://web.mit.edu/registrar/stats/geo/index.html
This site shows there are 29 undergrads from India, that's second highest only after China, so maybe I have a better chance!

 

[CrysPhys]

Yes I do play basketball, but just at the school and district level and I understand that it won't make much of a difference.

If you're specifically interested in MIT, about the only sport of significance there is crew (rowing). Ivy's weight sports talent (in a wide variety of sports) more heavily in the admissions process.

 

[radium]

I would assume a lot of people from India don’t apply because they can’t/don’t think they can afford it. I think I’ve met some international students who were accepted but didn’t go because it was too expensive.

Ivy League schools definitely weigh sports if you are good enough to play D1. I knew a lot of kids from my high school were recruited for sports like swimming, fencing, crew, football etc., many who would definitely not have made the cut academically. You basically sign a contract and the coach gets you through admissions. At MIT I’m pretty sure they don’t formally do this since it’s not D1 but the coaches still have a good amount of sway. In this sense it would help you get in if you are borderline/clearly able to do the work but not as strong as the top applicants.

I think these schools would consider piano in a sense that it shows you are committed to an extra curricular (they like that), but playing piano itself will not make you stand out (unless you are absolutely outstanding), like being brilliant academically alone is not enough to get admitted in most cases. I know a lot of incredibly brilliant people (who are now in grad school at these places) who were denied for undergrad at MIT, the Ivies etc. even though I’m sure they would have been among other top students there.

You can definitely see how the emphasis on extracurriculars during admissions heavily influenced the campus environment at these schools as many students seem to care more about their extracurriculars than academics.

 

[Vanadium 50]

his site shows there are 29 undergrads from India, that's second highest only after China, so maybe I have a better chance!

Sigh. 9 of those students are not regular students, leaving 20. That's total enrollment, so you need to divide by the time to degree, 4-5 years. That leaves 4-5 students per year.

I realized that I need to get medals at national and international level olympiads to make a stand and I have started to study for the Regional Mathematics Olympiad, which is the first step to IMO in India

Not true - and this is one of the pitfalls of listening to high (and middle) schoolers. Sure, MIT accepts many internationals with IMO medals. It also rejects many internationals with IMO medals. What you need to do is to stand out, country-wide. Are you clearly one of the top 10 students in India? There are many ways to do this, other than math 9and similar olympiads).

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

Sigh. 9 of those students are not regular students, leaving 20. That's total enrollment, so you need to divide by the time to degree, 4-5 years. That leaves 4-5 students per year.
Not true - and this is one of the pitfalls of listening to high (and middle) schoolers. Sure, MIT accepts many internationals with IMO medals. It also rejects many internationals with IMO medals. What you need to do is to stand out, country-wide. Are you clearly one of the top 10 students in India? There are many ways to do this, other than math 9and similar olympiads).

If I want to show I am among the top 10 in India, I can do it bit getting in the top 10 in JEE exam. Last year 1186454 students registered for the exam.

 

[radium]

That is going to be almost impossibly difficult. The students who score in the top ten on that exam are likely future professors at MIT, Harvard etc. But regardless of that, as I mentioned, unlike India and China, US college admissions are not objective at all. Whether or not this is a good thing is debatable, but you can’t just get perfect scores/rankings on everything and expect to automatically get into your pick of these schools. Even the smartest few people I know (whose intelligence is apparent within minutes of talking to them and from their post high school achievements) did not get into all of the schools they applied to despite having many of the accomplishments you listed. It’s not a fair process at all. If you were to go to one of these schools and sit in on an undergrad class, you could definitely pick out several students who are very underwhelming academically. I hear this a lot from the international grad students since they are not used the system.

One way you can be strategic is to apply early. The ones with restrictions like single choice early action or especially early decision (but that is binding so it’s much more serious decision) usually accept a much higher percentage of applicants in that round. For example, Harvard has an early action acceptance rate almost triple the overall acceptance rate. I don’t think MIT gives early applicants any advantage since there are no restrictions on where else you can apply early.

The only thing you can do is try your best and apply to a lot of schools. I do really think adding a place like Cambridge or Oxford would be a good move as I know some Indian students who did their undergrad in the UK.

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

That is going to be almost impossibly difficult. The students who score in the top ten on that exam are likely future professors at MIT, Harvard etc. But regardless of that, as I mentioned, unlike India and China, US college admissions are not objective at all. Whether or not this is a good thing is debatable, but you can’t just get perfect scores/rankings on everything and expect to automatically get into your pick of these schools. Even the smartest few people I know (whose intelligence is apparent within minutes of talking to them and from their post high school achievements) did not get into all of the schools they applied to despite having many of the accomplishments you listed. It’s not a fair process at all. If you were to go to one of these schools and sit in on an undergrad class, you could definitely pick out several students who are very underwhelming academically. I hear this a lot from the international grad students since they are not used the system.

One way you can be strategic is to apply early. The ones with restrictions like single choice early action or especially early decision (but that is binding so it’s much more serious decision) usually accept a much higher percentage of applicants in that round. For example, Harvard has an early action acceptance rate almost triple the overall acceptance rate. I don’t think MIT gives early applicants any advantage since there are no restrictions on where else you can apply early.

The only thing you can do is try your best and apply to a lot of schools. I do really think adding a place like Cambridge or Oxford would be a good move as I know some Indian students who did their undergrad in the UK.

Hey, I would love to study in Oxford or Cambridge. Could you tell me what tests, exams, and co-curricular activities these universities value. Also, I read somewhere that you cannot apply to both Cambridge and Oxford in the same academic year.

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

Can anyone explain me what College Board AP is? Many universities seem to value these exams.

 

[lekh2003]

Not true - and this is one of the pitfalls of listening to high (and middle) schoolers. Sure, MIT accepts many internationals with IMO medals. It also rejects many internationals with IMO medals. What you need to do is to stand out, country-wide. Are you clearly one of the top 10 students in India? There are many ways to do this, other than math 9and similar olympiads).

In India and most competitive countries, olympiads are usually the way to shine in your country. This can be in the Math Olympiad, Physics Olympiad, Programming Olympiad.

As much as I hate to say it, India is a rat race for education (look at the population). To get into universities like the IIT and IIM in India, you need to be in the top ten in something. that could be the JEE exam or you could participate in olympiads. Universities seem to like toppers with big marks and a "top ten students" label on them. What better way to get this label than participate in IMO.

And what kind of logic for not doing an IMO is that some get in and some don't. There is always an element of chance. Most of the IMO medal winners have entered their universities of choice. Some might not have, but that doesn't undermine that it is a badge of recognition of talent.

BTW I might be unexperienced in being an MIT-expert, but I know how India is. There is enormous societal pressure as well as competitive pressure. To get good marks in Indian examinations, having a competitive spirit is almost crucial.

 

[lekh2003]

Can anyone explain me what College Board AP is? Many universities seem to value these exams.

It provides a college level learning for students in high school in the US. Universities value them since it shows an extended level of learning.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

In India and most competitive countries, olympiads are usually the way to shine in your country. This can be in the Math Olympiad, Physics Olympiad, Programming Olympiad.

I wouldn't place the Olympiads so high in the US. For most competitive schools here, a great ACT or SAT score is usually the most important single factor. A mediocre GPA can exclude you, but even a perfect GPA won't open many admissions or scholarship doors without an accompanying great ACT or SAT score. After this there are several things that I would also place of equal or greater importance to the Olympiads: being an ISEF finalist and winning awards there, publishing papers in peer-reviewed journals, having inventions patented, doing research with college faculty and having them write letters of recommendation, etc. There are also a number of other scientific contests where winning at the state or national level will be weighted comparably to performing well at the Olympiads: JSHS, SJWP, YNA, etc.

Another thing to remember is that most admissions and scholarship decisions are made by committees of people. How these committees make their selections at a given school is not static, but most likely changes year to year as the make-up of the committees change. One year a committee member my value the Olympiads more highly than other science competitions, and the next year that committee member may be replaced by a committee member who values accomplishments as an ISEF finalist more heavily.

 

[stephenkohnle53]

One of my FIRST robotics mentors is on the MIT admissions board and he said that joining a FIRST team is one of the single best things you can do to increase odds of getting in. To join a FIRST team you do not need experience or engineering interest and you can join FIRST teams at other high schools than you are in. I believe MIT has a DARPA team so I would suggest contacting their team and try to talk to them since some people on the board of admissions are connected to that team and that may or may not help you get in.

As far as I can tell there is only one FIRST team in india, which is in mumbai here https://www.thebluealliance.com/team/6024

To contact them try the following link https://www.facebook.com/teamrfactor

I have found some conflicting info on them from different sites but I would suggest contacting them anyway.

edit: I would suggest joining a FRC team near what ever college you choose to go to when you go to college because there are mentor scholarships available

edit2: You could also try creating a team with support from team R factor, that would increase your odds even more than joining a team. I suggest you try to become a safety captain for a team since that should help a little bit

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

One of my FIRST robotics mentors is on the MIT admissions board and he said that joining a FIRST team is one of the single best things you can do to increase odds of getting in. To join a FIRST team you do not need experience or engineering interest and you can join FIRST teams at other high schools than you are in. I believe MIT has a DARPA team so I would suggest contacting their team and try to talk to them since some people on the board of admissions are connected to that team and that may or may not help you get in.

As far as I can tell there is only one FIRST team in india, which is in mumbai here https://www.thebluealliance.com/team/6024

To contact them try the following link https://www.facebook.com/teamrfactor

I have found some conflicting info on them from different sites but I would suggest contacting them anyway.

edit: I would suggest joining a FRC team near what ever college you choose to go to when you go to college because there are mentor scholarships available

edit2: You could also try creating a team with support from team R factor, that would increase your odds even more than joining a team. I suggest you try to become a safety captain for a team since that should help a little bit

Really appreciate your efforts. But what is a FIRST team, hearing this for the first time.

 

[MidgetDwarf]

google is your friend... this shows extreme laziness on your part, and shows that maybe you are not possible succeeding in school.

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

I tried googling it but got nothing. It is showing something related to real estate, nothing relevant to this topic.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

I tried googling it but got nothing. It is showing something related to real estate, nothing relevant to this topic.

I searched FIRST robotics 2018 and got the right links at the very top. Maybe you're just not MIT material.

 

[Vatsal Goyal]

I searched FIRST robotics 2018 and got the right links at the very top. Maybe you're just not MIT material.

Ohh I get it now, I hadn't understood stephenkohnle53's reply completely and had been searching 'FIRST team' and probably that's why not getting any results. I looked up FIRST Robotics Competition, but it isn't an option because I have zero knowledge on robotics and it is an international competition.