How to simulate Ground bounce on AC line

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around simulating ground bounce in a system operating on 220V AC, particularly in relation to how different grounding conditions might affect logic circuits running at 5V DC. Participants explore methods for replicating these conditions in a laboratory setting.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to simulate ground bounce for a 220V AC system and suggests using a SPDT relay to toggle between different grounds.
  • Another participant questions the concept of "Ground bounce on AC line" and mentions the complexity of simulating earth potential rise, referencing ground potential gradients around substations during faults.
  • A different participant proposes using SPICE to define multiple ground nodes in a circuit, connecting them to a reference ground through transmission lines and inductances to model ground bounce effects, and suggests using impedance measurement tools to correlate with empirical data.
  • One participant expresses a need for real-world simulation rather than just theoretical, questioning the impact of 220VAC ground bounce on 5VDC logic circuits, speculating that it may cause glitches but suggesting bypass capacitors might mitigate issues.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the best method for simulating ground bounce or the implications it may have on logic circuits. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the effects and simulation techniques.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions about grounding conditions, the definitions of ground bounce, and the specific effects on logic circuits that remain unresolved.

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I am not talking about Digital circuit ground bounce on PCB.
How do I simulate a Ground bounce for a system that runs on 220V AC.
In real field conditions, the system might be connected to different grounds. How do i replicate this in the lab.

Can I have a SPDT relay between GND1 & GND2. I can just toggle to simulate ground bounce?
 
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I'm not sure what you mean by "Ground bounce on AC line". If you are trying to simulate earth potential rise, good luck. Here's what the ground potential gradient might look around a substation due to a fault.

625px-Touch_Potential.jpg
 
With SPICE you can define "grounds" in various parts of your circuit that are not actually SPICE ground node 0. You then can tie these remote grounds to SPICE ground via transmission lines and inductances to model the physical line effects that create ground bounce. To tie this to empirical data, you use various impedance measurement equipment such as LCR meters and VNAs to estimate the parameter values for these ground components.
 
jsgruszynski,
Simulation will help. But i need to do this in real.

I think I am trying to find out if the 220VAC ground bounce has any effect on the logic circuits running at 5VDC.
If it screws up the data.
Mostly likely it will result in a glitch. But i guess the bypass caps will take care of that.
 

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