How to Solve an Inverting Operational Amplifier Problem?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a problem related to an inverting operational amplifier, specifically focusing on determining the output voltage (Vo) and output current (io) based on a provided circuit diagram. Participants explore various approaches to the problem, including considerations of feedback types and the implications of using ideal op-amps.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to use a voltage divider to find the input voltage but expresses uncertainty about how to proceed further with the problem.
  • Another participant questions the accuracy of the diagram, suggesting that it may involve DC positive feedback, which could lead to the output being pinned at either the positive or negative rail.
  • A participant acknowledges the diagram as provided by the professor but indicates a lack of understanding of op-amps, especially under the time constraint of an approaching deadline.
  • There is a suggestion to solve the circuit both ways: as drawn with positive feedback and by reversing the inputs to achieve negative feedback for extra credit.
  • A participant expresses confusion about how to approach solving the circuit with positive feedback, given their prior experience only with negative feedback configurations.
  • Concerns are raised about the impossibility of calculating output voltage and current without knowing the supply voltage, and the assumption of using an ideal op-amp is mentioned.
  • Another participant explains that the circuit is bistable due to positive feedback, indicating that the output could be either high or low, depending on the initial state of the circuit.
  • It is noted that the output of the op-amp will pin near the power supply rails, and the output state is influenced by the configuration of the power supplies used.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the circuit diagram and the implications of positive versus negative feedback. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to solve the problem, with multiple competing perspectives on the behavior of the circuit.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations such as the lack of information on supply voltage and the identification of the op-amp, which affects the ability to calculate output values. The discussion also reflects uncertainty regarding the initial conditions of the circuit.

Katfazack
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Homework Statement



Given the attached figure (with values as shown on the op-amp) find Vo and io.


Homework Equations



None

The Attempt at a Solution



I figure that we're looking at an inverting operational amplifier and I used a voltage divider to find the input voltage [(90/90+10)]*1V = .9V. But I'm stuck on the rest.

I don't think it was very well explained by my professor, and since no two op-amps look alike I'm just wondering about how to solve this problem but also how to approach these problems in general? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 

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Are you sure the diagram is correct? As it is, there is DC positive feedback which will result in the op amp output at either the positive rail or negative rail. Could the inputs be reversed?
 
Well that's the diagram she gave us... So I'm not sure. I don't really understand that much about op-amps in particular. She just introduced the concept, but the homework is due today!
 
Katfazack said:
Well that's the diagram she gave us... So I'm not sure. I don't really understand that much about op-amps in particular. She just introduced the concept, but the homework is due today!

Well then solve it both ways. Solve it as drawn with positive feedback (the output will do as skeptic says, either pinned high or low), and go for the extra credit by reversing the inputs of the opamp to configure it for negative feedback, and solve for the output voltage and current.
 
Ok, but I've only solved before with negative feedback. How do I do it with positive feedback?
 
Because the supply voltage isn't given it is impossible to calculate what the output voltage and current would be. Since the op amp isn't identified I'd have to assume it was an ideal op amp so that when the output is low, it is zero.

You might mention these objections to solving the circuit with positive feedback and then solve it with the inputs reversed. You can do that, right?
 
Oh, yes we are only dealing with ideal op amps. But how do I know that the output is low?
 
Katfazack said:
Oh, yes we are only dealing with ideal op amps. But how do I know that the output is low?

You don't, because the circuit is bistable. Because of the + feedback, the output will peg either high or low. Generally with a comparator circuit (which is what is drawn), the input varies about some reference point (in this circuit it would be ground), and the output trips high and low when the input crosses the reference point (plus or minus half of the hysteresis voltage).

In the circuit shown, the input is steady, so you have no way of knowing how the output initialized (which of the bistable states it started in). If this were a real circuit, the output state would be determined at power-up, and might even be different for multiple power-ups.

BTW, the output of the opamp will pin near the rails, so if you have split power supplies for the opamp, the output will pin near those rails and not ground. If it's a single supply opamp, then the low output state will be near ground.
 

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