I Feel like there is no way I will land a STEM job

[FER]

Graduated in 2017. No real research experience (though I was in a lab). Graduated with a 3.7 from one of the top schools in the country (maybe considered 2nd tier by some/most)

Had opportunities to use some random connections (customers I met while working for my parents) about a year out of school to get a job, but mental illness and lack of confidence kept me from using any connections. Now it's too late for those connections.

Guess that's 4 years out the window. Wish someone would have told me not to go to college.

Now to start my real life, one where I enter the rat race and chase money instead of attempting to... well, whatever it was I was attempting to do, was just chasing status I guess (never really had passion).

Hope everyone else has better luck. Hope I can actually land a non-STEM job that I don't suck at.

Just venting I guess. No need to reply as I will probably never take the advice given.

 

[Joshy]

Do you know what's holding you back? Are you not getting any response from your applications? What did you study by the way?

 

[hutchphd]

First of all are you actively seeing a mental health professional? You sound pretty depressed and you mentioned mental issues...first things first get the help you need You will see your situation is likely far less bleak than you imagine.

I will tell a personal tale. .Halfway through a pretty good career trajectory I began to realize that I was obtaining almost everything I had wanted personally and professionally and yet I was less and less happy. It was at least partially bad chemicals in my brain (the depressive side of my generous genetic heritage).

The result was a ten year hiatus in my professional adventure and some time spent in a primitive cabin in the woods in Maine. Through the grace of good and abiding friends I was coaxed back into looking at engineering problems as a part-time consultant and finally hired as a Research Engineer. I have had a wonderful second career from that point.

So it is never as dire as you imagine. There is more than one path to your truth and you need to have confidence that you will find it. And reaching out to people for help is the hallmark of strength.

 

[FER]

Do you know what's holding you back? Are you not getting any response from your applications? What did you study by the way?

I think I'm kind of slow to grasp concepts and I don't fit in among intellectuals. I lost all my confidence in college despite doing well. I could tell everyone in my lab thought I was stupid and disinterested. I don't have what it takes to just listen to lectures and grasp everything, but put it in writing and I can learn all of it if given enough time. But I always felt rushed in college, so maybe I'm just not smart enough. Imo, most people can learn about anything if given enough time. I would put myself in that boat, but I'm just slow.

I am able to get responses to my applications, but as I am 3 years removed from college, I don't fare very well anymore. I also have no one I can use as a reference from my school.

I studied biochemistry.

First of all are you actively seeing a mental health professional? You sound pretty depressed and you mentioned mental issues...first things first get the help you need You will see your situation is likely far less bleak than you imagine.
I will tell a personal tale. .Halfway through a pretty good career trajectory I began to realize that I was obtaining almost everything I had wanted personally and professionally and yet I was less and less happy. It was at least partially bad chemicals in my brain (the depressive side of my generous genetic heritage). The result was a ten year hiatus in my professional adventure and some time spent in a primitive cabin in the woods in Maine. Through the grace of good and abiding friends I was coaxed back into looking at engineering problems as a part-time consultant and finally hired as a Research Engineer. I have had a wonderful second career from that point.
So it is never as dire as you imagine. There is more than one path to your truth and you need to have confidence that you will find it. And reaching out to people for help is the hallmark of strength.

Yes, I have a psychiatrist. That is an encouraging story you tell and I will try to keep it in mind.

Sorry guys, I did not mean to join this forum to rant. I wanted to self study physics and be like Tesla. However, just wandering through some of the non-homework stuff on this board made me realize I was out of my element. Threw me into a depressive spiral. This whole Coronavirus thing is bumming me out as well.Honestly, I think it's over. I probably won't be using my degree. Not a big deal as long as I can find something, anything, that I'm decent at and can do for a living.

 

[symbolipoint]

FER
Problem is a couple of things , maybe.
One, if you graduated in 2017 and did not have much actual related employment, you will be or appear to be an undesirable job candidate. Two or other, current business climate may work against some kinds of jobs, but possibly favor other kinds of jobs. Was your undergraduate degree in some field related to biology, healthcare, computer technology, or maybe engineering? You could still have a chance.

If you look for a non-STEM job, you will find many principals thinking that you are "not suitably qualified" or that you are "overqualified".

 

[FER]

FER
Problem is a couple of things , maybe.
One, if you graduated in 2017 and did not have much actual related employment, you will be or appear to be an undesirable job candidate. Two or other, current business climate may work against some kinds of jobs, but possibly favor other kinds of jobs. Was your undergraduate degree in some field related to biology, healthcare, computer technology, or maybe engineering? You could still have a chance.

If you look for a non-STEM job, you will find many principals thinking that you are "not suitably qualified" or that you are "overqualified".

Yes, you are correct. You tell it like it is. Very easy to fall through the cracks in this world.

 

[Joshy]

What kind of jobs are you interested in? Are they related to biochemistry or are they shifting towards something else?

It doesn't sound like you're very much willing to go back to school unless that was just some venting (we all have to do it from time to time right)?

 

[Vanadium 50]

It doesn't sound like you know what you want. A STEM job, a non-STEM job, a job where you won't have to work with "intellectuals" (whatever that means, exactly).

If you don't kn ow where you are going, any road will take you there.

 

[hutchphd]

Honestly, I think it's over. I probably won't be using my degree. Not a big deal as long as I can find something, anything, that I'm decent at and can do for a living.

Of course in whatever you do you will be using your degree. You earned it and it may be useful in ways you cannot imagine. And until you see a clear path forward get in the habit of saying "yes" to everything that comes your way. The results may surprise you. Best Luck.

 

[FER]

What kind of jobs are you interested in? Are they related to biochemistry or are they shifting towards something else?

It doesn't sound like you're very much willing to go back to school unless that was just some venting (we all have to do it from time to time right)?

Well I am in the transition of switching my goals from STEM to non-STEM so I am not completely sure what job I will find to be most suitable. Most likely, I will take whatever I can get. Yeah, I was just venting, but I'm probably done with school.

It doesn't sound like you know what you want. A STEM job, a non-STEM job, a job where you won't have tow orkm with "intellectuals" (whatever that means, exactly).

If you don't kn ow where you are going, any road will take you there.

I get where you're coming from, but don't really see what there is to be confused about here, besides maybe the part about intellectuals. I wanted a STEM job, couldn't or at least no longer can get one, and now will try to get a non-stem job. When I say I don't fit in with intellectuals, it basically means I don't usually get along with people passionate about research, probably because I don't share that same passion. If you can't get along with the people you work for/with, it usually doesn't go well.

I guess the title of this thread may be misleading people into thinking I will still pursue a STEM career. Maybe that will be true someday if I change my mind, but as of right now I think I will have to look elsewhere.

 

[homeylova223]

I think getting a stem job is tough. I been semi employed working since I graduated in 2018. Now with corona virus getting a job will even harder. I am thinking of going back to school but the student loans ugh. Its like you need that xp but no one will give it you.

STEM jobs I think you really have to know what you are doing. I wanted to go into software but for that you really need to have projects, and good project to show off not simple little project. You need to know about different tools. I am not sure about electrical or mechanical but you really need to know a lot what you learn in college is not enough.

 

[FER]

I think getting a stem job is tough. I been semi employed working since I graduated in 2018. Now with corona virus getting a job will even harder. I am thinking of going back to school but the student loans ugh. Its like you need that xp but no one will give it you.

STEM jobs I think you really have to know what you are doing. I wanted to go into software but for that you really need to have projects, and good project to show off not simple little project. You need to know about different tools. I am not sure about electrical or mechanical but you really need to know a lot what you learn in college is not enough.

I agree

 

[homeylova223]

indeed taking class in programming at college is not enough to be a developer. I took classes in data structures,algorithms, automaton, computer architecture. But you just learn a lot of theory. The HR people are like what project you got.It is not easy to have a good project or your own, you need to first get really good at the essentials first and then develop a project and there so many complex tools its a nightmare.We need universal basic income.

 

[FER]

indeed taking class in programming at college is not enough to be a developer. I took classes in data structures,algorithms, automaton, computer architecture. But you just learn a lot of theory. The HR people are like what project you got.It is not easy to have a good project or your own, you need to first get really good at the essentials first and then develop a project and there so many complex tools its a nightmare.We need universal basic income.

I thought in software development they generally take chances on CS majors that only know theory with a little programming, knowing that the candidate will be able to learn the additional programming skills?

 

[homeylova223]

I am not sure the companies I applied like Amazon made you these coding assements and I think to get good at them you have to spend time on website like leetcode and do these practice problems, like one the question they will ask you is find a missing number in an array list from 1,2,3,...,1000. Or write a program which print the fibbionacci sequence or matches strings.

 

[FER]

I am not sure the companies I applied like Amazon made you these coding assements and I think to get good at them you have to spend time on website like leetcode and do these practice problems, like one the question they will ask you is find a missing number in an array list from 1,2,3,...,1000. Or write a program which print the fibbionacci sequence or matches strings.

Oh yeah the bigger companies like to give you coding puzzles. I guess smaller companies might be moving in that direction as well, though that would kind of surprise me. Maybe, like you said, the smaller companies want to see projects these days instead of being willing to just take a chance on some guy. I heard of them taking chances on CS grads with little programming experience, but that was many years ago and is likely dated information now.

 

[Joshy]

Would you be willing to do part-time community college? When I was in the community college I got into an internship catered for community college students; after transferring I did SULI, which you'll see people posting about, but a lot of people doing the internship with me were from CCI and they were working on very interesting things. One of the CCI students he went to the same university as me and was in a similar slump that you described, and so he went back to the community college and I met him at the internship. Last time I spoke to him he was doing another internship at NASA (I'm not sure if that was a community college program or not).

You're not in such a great spot right now so maybe doing an internship without pay might not be so bad?

You don't need a job to work on projects. I know two people who programmed their own apps or made plugins for video games, and they put it on their resume and showed that off at interviews- they got in. I've been interviewed for programming projects I have very little professional programming experience because I'm a hardware engineer, and most of the things that caught their attention and we talked about was all the things I did off on the side for fun as a hobby or just wanted to try. While you're sheltering in place this might be the best time for you to try out things.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

A degree is never a guarantee of a job. STEM degrees only increase one's odds and the average salary. Someone is always in the lowest part of the tail of probability and salary distributions.

If one finds oneself in the lower part of the tail, one needs to identify why and fix it. What will make you a more appealing STEM job candidate? There are some considerations that can be uncomfortable to discuss in a public forum.

 

[StatGuy2000]

To the OP:

Right now, finding any entry-level job may be difficult due to the worldwide COVID-19 pandemic (unless you happen to be working in the pharmaceutical industry, or in some job where remote employment is possible e.g. software development or IT).

But setting that aside, what you need to do (after addressing your issues with mental illness) is identify what skills you possesses (from either your education or your past work experiences). Creating a checklist of these would be a good exercise for you.

Then you need to really dive in and look at your interview skills, resume writing skills, etc. I'm sure there must be online references available to help you on this area (perhaps other PF members can suggest these?)

Finally, you need to determine what kind of job do you ultimately want to work in. What kind of job environment do you most enjoy? Do you enjoy working by yourself, or working as part of a large team? Are you a "hands-on" type of person, or are you more a pen-and-paper (and computer) type of person? Do you enjoy interacting with or dealing with customers directly? These are the types of questions you need to ask yourself.

 

[FER]

A degree is never a guarantee of a job. STEM degrees only increase one's odds and the average salary. Someone is always in the lowest part of the tail of probability and salary distributions.

If one finds oneself in the lower part of the tail, one needs to identify why and fix it. What will make you a more appealing STEM job candidate? There are some considerations that can be uncomfortable to discuss in a public forum.

Then where do you discuss these "considerations"? I would think it's easier to discuss things that may offend in a forum than in real life.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Then where do you discuss these "considerations"? I would think it's easier to discuss things that may offend in a forum than in real life.

In real life, I like to cut to the chase quickly when giving advice on job searches - but a level of detail is needed that is seldom seen (or allowed) here at PF. I want to see a resume and a list of jobs applied for and interviewed for. I consider what the applicant looks like and how they come across. I want to consider geographical constraints and other things that may be relevant factors - background, criminal history, impact of affirmative action, drug abuse, etc.

Public forums are not the best place for the level of detail really needed.

 

[FER]

In real life, I like to cut to the chase quickly when giving advice on job searches - but a level of detail is needed that is seldom seen (or allowed) here at PF. I want to see a resume and a list of jobs applied for and interviewed for. I consider what the applicant looks like and how they come across. I want to consider geographical constraints and other things that may be relevant factors - background, criminal history, impact of affirmative action, drug abuse, etc.

Public forums are not the best place for the level of detail really needed.

That is fair. I thought you were trying to say something else.

 

[FER]

Would you be willing to do part-time community college? When I was in the community college I got into an internship catered for community college students; after transferring I did SULI, which you'll see people posting about, but a lot of people doing the internship with me were from CCI and they were working on very interesting things. One of the CCI students he went to the same university as me and was in a similar slump that you described, and so he went back to the community college and I met him at the internship. Last time I spoke to him he was doing another internship at NASA (I'm not sure if that was a community college program or not).

You're not in such a great spot right now so maybe doing an internship without pay might not be so bad?

You don't need a job to work on projects. I know two people who programmed their own apps or made plugins for video games, and they put it on their resume and showed that off at interviews- they got in. I've been interviewed for programming projects I have very little professional programming experience because I'm a hardware engineer, and most of the things that caught their attention and we talked about was all the things I did off on the side for fun as a hobby or just wanted to try. While you're sheltering in place this might be the best time for you to try out things.

I don't think I'll be going back to school. But in the case I change my mind this information will be very helpful.

 

[sysprog]

I thought in software development they generally take chances on CS majors that only know theory with a little programming, knowing that the candidate will be able to learn the additional programming skills?

If you can code well, you can get paid well for it, but you can't get paid well for long if you write dreck.

 

[symbolipoint]

That is fair. I thought you were trying to say something else.

He was saying in effect that private or personal things need to be discussed privately or personally, and NOT on a forum.

 

[symbolipoint]

If you look for a non-STEM job, you will find many principals thinking that you are "not suitably qualified" or that you are "overqualified".

But that does not mean you should ignore such jobs if you are interested or believe you could do them. I was just saying how employers can often be very narrow-minded about the entire set of qualifications a job seeker may have, and judge against someone who has a scientific or technical degree for a job not depending on such an education.

 

[homeylova223]

Right now is not a good time to find a job unless you are a medical worker.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/02/unemployment-claims-coronavirus-pandemic-161081
10 million people are claiming unemployment. The record for 2008 recession was 15 million. We are heading toward an economic despair.

What will happen to recent graduates?

Plus with all this unemployment the economy will shrink, people will not be able to buy things so that means companies will need fewer workers causing a chain reaction of unemployment.

 

[jedishrfu]

This job search problem historically has popped up whenever there are more graduates in a field than there are jobs. It happened in the Aerospace industry when NASA started to cut back. It has always been there for Astronomy, Physics and other teaching/research-oriented fields as there are too few academic positions and so few in the field get jobs.

One big trend has been in Data Sciences, AI, Machine Learning and Deep Learning. These fields are hot and with the Quantum Computer on the horizon in big demand. Likewise for cutting edge Biology and Medical fields.

Ups and Downs example:

Big Oil recently was on a hiring binge and couldn't get enough grads. The reason was a general reluctance to hire new people until it became clear that they were losing too many senior people to retirement. This binge then sets up increased student enrollment in Oil-related fields and now once again we have an Oil downturn with the price battle between the Saudis and the Russians and prospects for new grads are much dimmer.

Bottomline

Things are constantly changing and you must adapt.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

STEM teaching jobs are steady for many jobs and rising for those with online teaching skills and experience.

High school STEM teaching jobs are steady through most downturns, and community college type jobs tend to trend upward because lots of unemployed folks go back to school.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Right now is not a good time to find a job unless you are a medical worker.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/02/unemployment-claims-coronavirus-pandemic-161081
10 million people are claiming unemployment. The record for 2008 recession was 15 million. We are heading toward an economic despair.

What will happen to recent graduates?

Plus with all this unemployment the economy will shrink, people will not be able to buy things so that means companies will need fewer workers causing a chain reaction of unemployment.

The one possible silver lining is that once COVID-19 has run its course -- either by infecting 40-60% of the world's population, or if vaccines or antiviral treatments become widely available (likely another 12-18 months away for vaccines, possibly much earlier for antivirals) -- then there would likely be pent up demand from businesses that can stimulate economic recovery (especially if governments around the world help stimulate the recovery through targeted economic spending and provide direct funds to help those who have been unemployed).

 

[homeylova223]

This job search problem historically has popped up whenever there are more graduates in a field than there are jobs. It happened in the Aerospace industry when NASA started to cut back. It has always been there for Astronomy, Physics and other teaching/research-oriented fields as there are too few academic positions and so few in the field get jobs.

One big trend has been in Data Sciences, AI, Machine Learning and Deep Learning. These fields are hot and with the Quantum Computer on the horizon in big demand. Likewise for cutting edge Biology and Medical fields.

Ups and Downs example:

Big Oil recently was on a hiring binge and couldn't get enough grads. The reason was a general reluctance to hire new people until it became clear that they were losing too many senior people to retirement. This binge then sets up increased student enrollment in Oil-related fields and now once again we have an Oil downturn with the price battle between the Saudis and the Russians and prospects for new grads are much dimmer.

Bottomline

Things are constantly changing and you must adapt.

You have a point that skills are important.But another important thing that is overlooked for entry level is knowing somebody in the industry. Even if you have the skills a lot of times when applying to a company you can will run into these HR Johnnies who will make you do a million psychological assessment and then not even reply to you.

I think its a mix of luck of having skills yes but also knowing somebody and having those connections.

 

[jedishrfu]

You definitely need to get past the HR firewall. One way is targetting your resume to the job you're applying to (and keep a copy of EVERYTHING you send to them -- for reference in case you get an interview). Targetting may get you past any machine learning filter.

If you've done your research then you should be able to find people who are working there who have published papers or done seminars something you can use in an email to them. You may strike a chord, establish a node for your network and then get insight on how to get a job there.

 

[homeylova223]

I guess that could emailing someone in the company. Say you want to work in the department of defense in some project which interest you, I guess you could try emailing who is in charge of the project as a way to get around the whole application hassle.

 

[jedishrfu]

I guess that could emailing someone in the company. Say you want to work in the department of defense in some project which interest you, I guess you could try emailing who is in charge of the project as a way to get around the whole application hassle.

This strategy may work well with industry but is not recommended with gov't sponsored projects.

The point is to build a network of professional friends using the tools of today, LinkedIn, Indeed or Monster and to network with people at professional conferences. You can write someone who presented a paper you liked and to discuss projects where it might apply to build up an expertise with the person that could lead to a job.

 

[Vanadium 50]

It is probably worth looking at the past messages of people who are replying to you to see what their own experiences have been.