I want to create a flotation device

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of creating a flotation device that utilizes an electromagnet to counteract gravity, allowing objects to float. Participants explore the theoretical and practical aspects of this idea, including sensor integration, control mechanisms, and the underlying physics involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using a strong electromagnet controlled by software to maintain an object in a state of equilibrium against gravity, questioning the feasibility of real-time power adjustments.
  • Another participant suggests a laser rangefinder as a potential sensor for measuring the distance to the object, indicating that it could provide a more effective feedback mechanism than a webcam.
  • A participant expresses interest in the mathematics involved, specifically asking about Maxwell's equations and the equations needed to describe the forces acting on the metallic object.
  • One reply emphasizes the importance of designing an electromagnet capable of supporting a specific weight and discusses the challenges of producing a strong magnetic field in a home lab setting.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of control theory, suggesting it could provide insights into maintaining stability and control over the electromagnet's field strength.
  • A suggestion is made to examine existing devices that operate on similar principles, such as magnetic floating globes, as a source of inspiration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the feasibility and design considerations of the flotation device. There is no consensus on the best approach or the specific equations required, indicating that multiple competing ideas and uncertainties remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the practical challenges of creating a sufficiently powerful electromagnet and the limitations of home lab setups. The discussion also highlights the need for multiple power sources to accommodate different components, such as the electromagnet and sensors.

eNathan
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My idea is to create a flotation device that would have a strong electromagnet at the top, this pulling objects upwards, just enough to cancel out gravity. A computer software will determine how much power to send to the electromagnet by knowing exactly how close the object is to the electromagnet using sensors of some sort.

So basically, when the metalic object starts going upwards towards the electromagnet, the software will lower the power of the electromagnent to let it start to fall back down due to gravity. Then it powers back up once it gets a bit too low. If a fairly constant equillibrium can be reached, the object should appear to float (perhaps wobbling up and down a bit, however).

How would I do this? I'm a software engineer so I can handle that aspect of it. What type of sensors would I use to know how high the object is getting? Would it be realistically posible to have the computer software process that and lower the power to the electromagnent in just enough time? The only type of sensor I could think is a web cam, coupled with a software to process the images.

Also, I really don't understand much about electromagnetism, but I'm willing to learn. What equations do I need to learn and perhaps impliment? From my observation of magnents, it seems that once a metal object gets into a certian range, it just absolutly flies up to the magnent. It's not some sort of slow progression. What are the equations to express all this, like magnent strength, movement, etc? As the software would have to know exactly how to modify the power output.


(Note: Please, no unnessasary pessimism towards my project unless you have a genuine reason as to why it can't suceed.)

Thanks!
 
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A friend of a friend did http://bea.st/sight/lightbulb/" AND made it light by using wireless power transfer. I believe the feedback mechanism was a laser rangefinder shining from the bottom.
 
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Wow, that's really impressive! A laser rangefinder seems to be the right solution.. I'll have to do some research into where to buy one and how you could posibly incorperate it with a software program. All I find when searching for them are hunting binoculars. :P

Can anyone help me out with the mathematics though? I'm willing to research and experiment on my own, I just need a nudge in the right direction. Are all I need to understand are Maxwell's equations? Maybe just some equations to describe the acceleration of the metalic object given the strength and distance from the electromagnent, so that I can have an idea of how much strength needs to be given / taken away to keep it afloat.
 
You need an electromagnet design that can support a weight of your choosing over a range of interaction you find satisfying.

Try "electromagnet" on Wikipedia for an overview with a few diagrams; then Google electromagnet design...you'll get a lot of hits and you can begin to decide what kind of electromagnet you'd like...


Would it be realistically posible to have the computer software process that and lower the power to the electromagnent in just enough time?

yes, but its a situation full of practical problems...It's likely this problem has been faced many times and some standard approaches developed...you'll have to decide if you want
to find them or do trial and error work on your own...

Once the mass begins to move the electromagnetic field needs enough power (force) to overcome momentum in addition to the fixed mass of the object. So your magnetic field has to overcome both over a distance of your choosing. A large and powerful magnetic field is not easy to produce in an experimental home lab setup...the bigger the field, the more electric power required. as you note , you vary the magnetic field strength by varying the electromagnet field current...the rate of change of field current will be limited by the inductance of the wire coil...how that limits response time to a moving weight determines your degree of control. You'll also have to decide how to power a laser range finder at it's required voltage as well as the larger power requirements (different voltage and current) of the electromagnet. Not a big deal, but you may need multiple power sources.
 
And you're going to enter the exciting world of control theory. We can casually talk about controlling the field strength to keep the item stable, but control theory tells you how actually to do it. Feedback, poles, zeroes, stability, overshoot, damping... it's fantastic.

In undergrad I studied Nise's Control Systems Engineering. It's pretty good and worth checking out.
 
You might want to crack one of these open. They're cheap and operate in the same way you are thinking:

http://www.gadgets-reviews.com/uimg_new/magnetic-floating-globe-10cm-diameter.jpg
 
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